Steve Jobs, Dead.

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the.weavster
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Re: Steve Jobs, Dead.

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luis wrote:When you enter a closed environment you better have a clear idea about how it works.
Unfortunately Apple's success has made most of the big players focus on how best to create their own closed environments. Samsung have copied Apple's model with their Bada app store and now M$ are in charge of NOKIA they'll do the same too.

M$ are now also trying to screw down PC's in the same way: Windows 8 - certified secure boot, this is clearly a dastardly plan designed to shaft anybody who might prefer the open horizons offered by Linux or BSD.
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Re: Steve Jobs, Dead.

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the.weavster wrote:M$ are now also trying to screw down PC's in the same way: Windows 8 - certified secure boot, this is clearly a dastardly plan designed to shaft anybody who might prefer the open horizons offered by Linux or BSD.
Calm down, it's not as you might think: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011 ... -uefi.aspx
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Re: Steve Jobs, Dead.

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c4s wrote:Calm down, it's not as you might think: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011 ... -uefi.aspx
The link I included was an article about Red Hat's response to the disingenuous blog post you've linked to.
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Re: Steve Jobs, Dead.

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Well, I don't think they are implementing this feature to make installing Linux harder. This accusation is ridiculous. (though, must admit that I didn't read your article)
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Re: Steve Jobs, Dead.

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Zach wrote:Well, isn't that lovely

This is the Apple everyone is grieving for.
That is a bad example to use. That post you linked to is being presented in a dishonest way and to shift the blame on Apple instead of admitting to the mistakes and bizarre actions they were taking that doomed their business to failure.
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Re: Steve Jobs, Dead.

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c4s wrote:This accusation is ridiculous. (though, must admit that I didn't read your article)
:lol: :lol:

"Microsoft's rebuttal is entirely factually accurate, but it's also misleading. The truth is that Microsoft's move removes control from the end user and places it in the hands of Microsoft and the hardware vendors. The truth is that it makes it more difficult to run anything other than Windows. The truth is that UEFI secure boot is a valuable and worthwhile feature that Microsoft are misusing to gain tighter control over the market. And the truth is that Microsoft haven't even attempted to argue otherwise"
-- Matthew Garrett (Red Hat engineer)


These issues last arose in 2003, when we fought back with the Trusted Computing FAQ and economic analysis. That initiative petered out after widespread opposition. This time round the effects could be even worse, as “unauthorised” operating systems like Linux and FreeBSD just won’t run at all.
-- Ross Anderson (University of Cambridge Computer Laboratory)

From the University of Cambridge Computer Laboratory weblog: http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2011 ... uting-2-0/
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Re: Steve Jobs, Dead.

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Why should Microsoft take care that Linux and FreeBSD run on any PC?
Trusted operating systems will run and if Linux is not a trusted OS, it is not Microsoft's problem.
The Linux/Unix/FreeBSD guys can make a deal with the hardware manufacturers to add a key
to the "valueable UEFI secure boot". Again, not Microsoft's problem. :twisted:

On one hand this guys say UEFI secure boot is good, on the other hand they do not want it
because their untrusted operating systems wouldn't run anymore.
Damn communists, don't know what they want... but always blame the other guys.

Trust the market leader only! :D
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Re: Steve Jobs, Dead.

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Danilo wrote:The Linux/Unix/FreeBSD guys can make a deal with the hardware manufacturers to add a key to the "valueable UEFI secure boot".
Now, obviously, we could provide signed versions of Linux. This poses several problems. Firstly, we'd need a non-GPL bootloader. Grub 2 is released under the GPLv3, which explicitly requires that we provide the signing keys. Grub is under GPLv2 which lacks the explicit requirement for keys, but it could be argued that the requirement for the scripts used to control compilation includes that. It's a grey area, and exploiting it would be a pretty good show of bad faith. Secondly, in the near future the design of the kernel will mean that the kernel itself is part of the bootloader. This means that kernels will also have to be signed. Making it impossible for users or developers to build their own kernels is not practical. Finally, if we self-sign, it's still necessary to get our keys included by every OEM.
-- Matthew Garrett (Red Hat engineer)
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Re: Steve Jobs, Dead.

Post by Kuron »

Danilo wrote: Trust the market leader only! :D

That would be Apple, not Microsoft. :wink:
Best wishes to the PB community. Thank you for the memories. ♥️
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Re: Steve Jobs, Dead.

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Kuron wrote:
Danilo wrote: Trust the market leader only! :D

That would be Apple, not Microsoft. :wink:
What, is this serious?

OS (web!) market share: Windows at least 82%, Apple 11% (source: wikipedia.org)
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Re: Steve Jobs, Dead.

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c4s wrote:OS (web!) market share: Windows at least 82%, Apple 11% (source: wikipedia.org)
I believe it.

We have two versions of our product, one is for Windows, the other is for the Mac, the Mac version only makes up about 5% of our sales as calculated from a full years worth of sales.
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Re: Steve Jobs, Dead.

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Kuron wrote:
Zach wrote:Well, isn't that lovely

This is the Apple everyone is grieving for.
That is a bad example to use. That post you linked to is being presented in a dishonest way and to shift the blame on Apple instead of admitting to the mistakes and bizarre actions they were taking that doomed their business to failure.

It's only one of a number of posts/stories which covered the same issue.

But it doesn't get any more crystal clear than the company keeping Apple informed of their business model, making sure they were correct and there would be no problems on the horizon, and Apple staying quiet while having the advantage of knowing they would be substantially changing the rules in the near future.

Truly.. Is it any accident that Apple magically changes things to use this 30% number that eats up all the possible profit margins of these ebook companies, while forcing the suppliers into a corner on how much of a discount they can offer to the resellers ?

A similar thing happened with J. River and their Media Center application.. I love the application because thankfully I can still sync with my iPod Classic. But J. River killed support for newer versions of iPod/ iPhone etc because they invested hundreds of hours, and apparently a couple hundred thousand dollars, to learn the API necesarry to do everything "by the rules"... And what does Apple do? Change the API/Rules on them again. So the head coder said point blank, Apple already cost him a lot of time, man power, and money, he won't invest in them again only to have them do the same thing down the road..

I initially didn't understand his viewpoint, because APIs do change all the time.. But the more I learn about Apple, and how they "manage" third party developers on the back-end with licensing fees, strict protocols, etc... The more I begin to see the guys point. Technically he could offer sync support in Media Center, but then he'd get into some kind of trouble, or have to play tit-for-tat with Apple blocking the app on their hardware, patching workarounds, patching again, patching again, etc.. It's not worth it.
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Re: Steve Jobs, Dead.

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Zach wrote: But it doesn't get any more crystal clear than the company keeping Apple informed of their business model, making sure they were correct and there would be no problems on the horizon, and Apple staying quiet while having the advantage of knowing they would be substantially changing the rules in the near future.

Truly.. Is it any accident that Apple magically changes things to use this 30% number that eats up all the possible profit margins of these ebook companies, while forcing the suppliers into a corner on how much of a discount they can offer to the resellers ?

But this really isn't accurate is it? The company was producing a simple ereader program. Instead of being happy with that, they wanted to pretend to be a publisher and start selling ebooks. The problem is they are not a publisher, they are simply a reseller. Just like any brick and mortar book store, the profit margin is very slim. Unfortunately when somebody wants to play store and pretend to be something they are not, they are usually in for a very rude awakening.

The problems being pissed and moaned about on the blog post you linked to, were self-created. If you don't like Apple's rules then don't distribute your app through their app store. Apple's TOS for iOS developers only applies to those who choose to distribute their app via the app store, which nobody is forcing you to do.
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Re: Steve Jobs, Dead.

Post by Zach »

It is a legitimate problem, when they could previously be a reseller because the publishers were giving them a discount of 50% (or more), not huge profits but a respectable sales business.

But then Apple came along and said, "No, if you want to play ball on our gear you have to do this "agent" stuff, and abide by our pricing restrictions".
*The publisher is now the retailer of record. The company selling the eBook to the end user is an “agent” of the retailer who receives a commission on the sale.

*All sales agents are required to sell books at the same retail price, which is set by the publisher. No one can sell at a different price.

*All sales agents get a 30% commission on the sale of a book. No one gets a different deal. Prior to the agency model, publishers typically offered retailers a 50% discount.
Them making an e-reader app is irrelevant in this case, because the same rules apply to *anyone* who wants to sell ebooks. It's the same idea in which you walk into Barnes & Nobles, or Borders, who are not really publisher but book stores, except they sell digital books. Its the same as any e-commerce. They can only make 30% off the sale of the book. They can't charge a few dollars less to make up the cost with stimulating more sales because Apple says everyone MUST sell for the same price.

So no matter who is selling the ebook, whatever the price, they get 30% of the money. Then Apple comes knocking and says "Ahem, we are entitled to 30% of the selling price of the book for the privilege of you being able to sell to our customers".


Where did the profit go??? There is none. Apple essentially takes your entire commission on the sale of the book.

I don't see that as wanting to be a publisher. I see it as wanting to sell ebooks to online customers.

But everything about this Agent model is clearly an attempt by Apple to make it impossible for anyone but Apple to actually make money selling eBooks.
At the very least, it is extremely anti-competitive behavior on the level of Microsoft. I never see anyone cry about Apple's anti-competitive behavior though, oddly enough, since it seems like they are suing somebody new every month.


Anyway, we will just have to disagree. I don't have the will to keep going with this. Anyone who reads this can do their own research and come to their own conclusions.
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Re: Steve Jobs, Dead.

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Does anyone besides me think it's a really remarkable coincidence that five days before the latest iPhone was released to the public Blackberry users suffered worldwide unexplained outages in service?
BERESHEIT
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