my opinion about the iraq war...

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wayne1
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Post by wayne1 »

Jihaad means struggle, not holy war. It's in reference to the struggles of life.
:lol: LOL

What is Jihad
by Daniel Pipes
New York Post
December 31, 2002
What does the Arabic word "jihad" mean?

One answer came last week, when Saddam Hussein had his Islamic leaders appeal to Muslims worldwide to join his jihad to defeat the "wicked Americans" should they attack Iraq; then he himself threatened the United States with jihad.

As this suggests, jihad is "holy war." Or, more precisely: It means the legal, compulsory, communal effort to expand the territories ruled by Muslims at the expense of territories ruled by non-Muslims.

The purpose of jihad, in other words, is not directly to spread the Islamic faith but to extend sovereign Muslim power (faith, of course, often follows the flag). Jihad is thus unabashedly offensive in nature, with the eventual goal of achieving Muslim dominion over the entire globe.

Jihad did have two variant meanings through the centuries, one more radical, one less so. The first holds that Muslims who interpret their faith differently are infidels and therefore legitimate targets of jihad. (This is why Algerians, Egyptians and Afghans have found themselves, like Americans and Israelis, so often the victims of jihadist aggression.) The second meaning, associated with mystics, rejects the legal definition of jihad as armed conflict and tells Muslims to withdraw from the worldly concerns to achieve spiritual depth.

Jihad in the sense of territorial expansion has always been a central aspect of Muslim life. That's how Muslims came to rule much of the Arabian Peninsula by the time of the Prophet Muhammad's death in 632. It's how, a century later, Muslims had conquered a region from Afghanistan to Spain. Subsequently, jihad spurred and justified Muslim conquests of such territories as India, Sudan, Anatolia, and the Balkans.

Today, jihad is the world's foremost source of terrorism, inspiring a worldwide campaign of violence by self-proclaimed jihadist groups:

* The International Islamic Front for the Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders: Osama bin Laden's organization;

* Laskar Jihad: responsible for the murder of more than 10,000 Christians in Indonesia;

* Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami: a leading cause of violence in Kashmir;

* Palestinian Islamic Jihad: the most vicious anti-Israel terrorist group of them all;

* Egyptian Islamic Jihad: killed Anwar El-Sadat in 1981, many others since, and

* Yemeni Islamic Jihad: killed three American missionaries on Monday.

But jihad's most ghastly present reality is in Sudan, where until recently the ruling party bore the slogan "Jihad, Victory and Martyrdom." For two decades, under government auspices, jihadists there have physically attacked non-Muslims, looted their belongings and killed their males.

Jihadists then enslaved tens of thousands of females and children, forced them to convert to Islam, sent them on forced marches, beat them and set them to hard labor. The women and older girls also suffered ritual gang-rape, genital mutilation and a life of sexual servitude.

Sudan's state-sponsored jihad has caused about 2 million deaths and the displacement of another 4 million - making it the greatest humanitarian catastrophe of our era.

Despite jihad's record as a leading source of conflict for 14 centuries, causing untold human suffering, academic and Islamic apologists claim it permits only defensive fighting, or even that it is entirely non-violent. Three American professors of Islamic studies colorfully make the latter point, explaining jihad as:

* An "effort against evil in the self and every manifestation of evil in society" (Ibrahim Abu-Rabi, Hartford Seminary);

* "Resisting apartheid or working for women's rights" (Farid Eseck, Auburn Seminary), and

* "Being a better student, a better colleague, a better business partner. Above all, to control one's anger" (Bruce Lawrence, Duke University).

It would be wonderful were jihad to evolve into nothing more aggressive than controlling one's anger, but that will not happen simply by wishing away a gruesome reality. To the contrary, the pretense of a benign jihad obstructs serious efforts at self-criticism and reinterpretation.

The path away from terrorism, conquest and enslavement lies in Muslims forthrightly acknowledging jihad's historic role, followed by apologies to jihad's victims, developing an Islamic basis for nonviolent jihad and (the hardest part) actually ceasing to wage violent jihad.

Unfortunately, such a process of redemption is not now under way; violent jihad will probably continue until it is crushed by a superior military force (Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, please take note). Only when jihad is defeated will moderate Muslims finally find their voice and truly begin the hard work of modernizing Islam.
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Post by Karbon »

*sigh*

It's not fair to equate terrorism and evil in general with Islam and those that follow it. That's the basic point of all my long winded rambling :-)
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Post by bazziman »

Karbon wrote:*sigh*

It's not fair to equate terrorism and evil in general with Islam and those that follow it. That's the basic point of all my long winded rambling :-)
Well, most muslims are nice people..they really are, but that's despite the Quran...not because of it.

Really mohammed wasn't all that: he had prisoners of war exectued, married a 6yo, attacked merchant caravans, called for the chopping of of fingertips of 'unbelievers', has poets murdered (some in their sleep) for making fun of him etc.

He was very much unlike Jesus or Ghandi.
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Post by wcardoso »

Do not be confused, this war is purely economic not religious. Why the citizens of power countries think they have special rights to combat people in another countries ?. Always justify those actions some way, "Saddam is a murder", or "Saddam killed his own people", etc.
There are a lot of murders everywhere and USA don´t say any word about them, think in the arab leaders "allied" of Washington; the Pakistan leader, etc.
I think the excuses to attack or initiate a war must be a lot more important than that, and your leaders know this. This is the reason to "invent" all the storm around the "massive destruction weapons" to justify this war.
It´s patetic ! :evil:
with love from Uruguay
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Post by bazziman »

wcardoso wrote:Do not be confused, this war is purely economic not religious.
Of course it is.
Why the citizens of power countries think they have special rights to combat people in another countries ?. Always justify those actions some way, "Saddam is a murder", or "Saddam killed his own people", etc.
There are a lot of murders everywhere and USA don´t say any word about them, think in the arab leaders "allied" of Washington; the Pakistan leader, etc.
well that is true too...still getting rid of Saddam (even if it is just for money, oil or power) is ALWAYS a good idea. Hitler was a bad guy too, and I'm sure most people will agree that the Yanks (out of their OWN interest, mind you!) did a nice job at helping get rid of him.
I think the excuses to attack or initiate a war must be a lot more important than that, and your leaders know this. This is the reason to "invent" all the storm around the "massive destruction weapons" to justify this war.It´s patetic ! :evil:
It may be, but I think that the hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis are good enough reasons.

I'm thinking of making a game...a top down 8 way scrolling 'team' shooter....a bit like that amiga game 'cannon fodder' but then with tanks and bradleys too....
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Post by LarsG »

Oooh.. I loved Cannon Fodder.. :)
I've been thinking of trying to do something similar myself,
but as allways, it has ended with the thought of it... :lol:

sorry for the off topic..

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Post by aszid »

when i think about it more... sadam seems like the type that could've ended up as the next hitler. and i doubt anyone would argue that taking care of hitler earlier wouldn't have saved countless lives. while i question the motives behind the most recent war, i do not doubt that more innocent lives were saved by taking out sadam now, rather than taking him out in a few years. i do not think the iraq war could have been avoided, at most, it would have just be postponed. And had it been put off for a few years, iraq would have been better prepared, and thus more lives would have been lost.

i think we should have taken care of sadam in desert storm 1. i don't think the sanctions that were employed on iraq after the first war would have even existed, had the goverment been removed then. thus the lives lost from the sanctions would have been immensly less. Sadam himself could have avoided the sanctions himself, had he stepped down from power. but has sadam ever held the well-being of the citizens of iraq above his own? i'm sure he could have lived free after stepping down too, but he put his own power-lust over the well-being of his citizens, not just his own life....

Any leader that would ask their citizens to sacrifice their lives for their country, should also be willing to die for the same cause. how many people would argue that sadam giving himself up wouldn't have saved a huge number of lives?

@lars - it is the off-topic forum, so no worries
Last edited by aszid on Thu Sep 11, 2003 6:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by wayne1 »

It's not fair to equate terrorism and evil in general with Islam and those that follow it.
Dennis Prager

November 5, 2002

Majority of muslims are peaceful - so what?

Whenever the question of Islam and violence, specifically terror, is raised, we are repeatedly told that "the vast majority of Muslims in the world are peaceful people" who never engage in terror. This is entirely accurate.

And entirely irrelevant.

The vast majority of Germans living in the Nazi era were also peaceful; very few ever so much as laid a hand on a Jew. So, too, the vast majority of Russians never killed anyone while 20-40 million of their fellow citizens were murdered by their Communist regime under Stalin. The point here is that the threat to civilization emanating from within Islam is no more obviated by the fact that the great majority of Muslims are not violent than the threat that emanated from Nazism was obviated by the peaceful behavior of the great majority of Germans or the threat from Soviet Communism was nullified by the nonviolence among the great majority of Russians. Germany was a threat to civilization because Nazis and their ideology took over German society while the majority of Germans (the "good Germans") either supported Nazi ideals or did nothing. Russia was a threat to civilization because Communists took over the country, and the great majority of Russians either supported Papa Stalin or did nothing. Some Islamic societies are today becoming a threat to civilization because Islamic totalitarians and terrorists are taking over those societies while a majority of Muslims either support their ideals or do nothing.


That is why it is meaningless at best and dishonest at worst to deny the threat to civilization coming from various Muslim countries by noting that most Muslims are not violent. Only a handful of Saudis terrorized America on 9-11-01, but a large majority of Saudis support Osama bin Laden. Few Palestinians strap bombs onto their children's bodies, but the majority of them support such evil and none others publicly morally condemn it.

At this moment, the dominant strain of Islamic thought is totalitarian, meaning that wherever possible, a government should be Islamic and govern according to a strict interpretation of the Sharia (Muslim religious law). Furthermore, when necessary and when possible, the Islamists believe these religious laws should be imposed violently -- as in Sudan, Nigeria, Afghanistan and elsewhere. In addition, the dominant ideological trend in much of Islamic society is hate-filled. What is said daily about Jews in Middle Eastern mosques rivals what the Nazis said about Jews. And not only in mosques. During Ramadan, Egyptian television is running a 41-part series based on the anti-Semitic forgery "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion."

For all these reasons, one's moral assessment of what is taking place in the Muslim world must be made independent of the fact that the great majority of Muslims are peaceful people. Their peaceful lifestyle is not influencing the bellicose trends in their religion.

Thus, what is most frightening is not that there are Muslim terrorists, but by how little criticism of Islamic terror emanates from normative Islamic groups. While some Muslim groups have condemned individual acts of Islamic terror such as 9-11, not one significant Muslim group in the world, including here in free America, has condemned Islamic terror generally. And the leaders of Al-Azhar University, the most prestigious institution of Islamic learning, have actually morally and religiously come out in support of Islamic suicide terror against Israelis.
So the fact that the majority of those living in the Islamic countries are good people is of no consequence. Unless they do something to condemn and to isolate the Muslim totalitarians and terrorists in their midst, history will judge them as it has all the good Germans during the Holocaust.
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Post by wayne1 »

I grow tired of people trying to further pervert Islam.
Nice schools but what about the three R's? 8O



Jihad rules in Islamic school

From CNN's Jakarta Bureau Chief Maria Ressa
Thursday, September 4, 2003 Posted: 2:46 AM EDT (0646 GMT)



Indonesian authorities have shut down many Islamic schools throughout Indonesia.


JAKARTA, Indonesia (CNN) -- In the al Mukmin Islamic school in the Javanese city of Solo a slogan above one classroom reads, "Death in the way of Allah is our highest aspiration."
In a boarding school where the alumni includes nearly all of Indonesia's top terror suspects, pictures of AK47's are plastered on the hallways.

The suicide bomber from last month's Marriott Hotel blast in Jakarta studied here, as did many of the men now on trial for the Bali bombing last year.


While authorities have shut down many Islamic schools throughout Indonesia, the primary feeder school co-founded by Muslim cleric Abu Bakar Ba'asyir still teaches an intolerant and radical form of Islam that often advocates violence.

Ba'asyir was sentenced to four years in prison this week for taking part in subversion and forgery, but authorities say they have no proof he was leader of the Jemaah Islamiyah (JI), al Qaeda's arm in Southeast Asia.

Documents seized by Indonesian police in recent months suggest JI is targeting some 140 religious boarding schools, or pesantrens, in the country in a bid to spread its brand of militant teachings.

The school's principal maintains Ba'asyir is innocent and the verdict against him was sparked by pressure from nations like the United States.

This is a view shared by former students like Lutfie.

"Would you accept it if your father was being accused of murder?" asks Lutfie. "Those charges are lies."

On the edges of the pages of his Koran, there is one word -- jihad. Students at the school are taught that Islam is under siege and that they must defend it.
But school officials have denied any links with terrorism.

"There is one community. Then there are some members of that community who have done something wrong. Is that community also at fault?" asks Ustadz Farid Ma'ruf, director of al Mukmin school.

Indonesian officials say they have no evidence students are being recruited for terrorist acts, but they have planted agents among the students.

In neighboring Malaysia, authorities have shut down similar schools, calling them "pipelines to terrorism."

Ba'asyir has said "I make many knives and I sell many knives, but I'm not responsible for what happens to them."

For now, the school he founded continues to spread his radical ideas.
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Post by Karbon »

Indeed Islam has been perverted horribly.. Thanks for backing that up with lots of text :-)
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