What about... Monkey-X?

[Joubarbe]

Hello!

I love PureBasic, yep, I do. I love its syntax, its implemented libraries, but as I work more on a little 2D project I have for quite some times, I wonder if it wouldn't be a better idea to switch from PB to something else.

I discovered Monkey-X a few months ago, and as I am no professional (and probably a little stupid), the Monkey syntax talked to me! I look at a code block in C++ or C#, I don't get it; I look at the same code in Monkey-X (and obviously PB), it's as clear as water.

Why would I leave PB? Simple answer: no game engine. Monkey-X has Ignition X and Jungle IDE. Has anyone ever tested these tools? Lighting, pathfinding, scaleable resolution, UI objects, physics, parallax, particles... It's quite attractive! There's a lot of complicated algorithms I can't code myself (maybe not complicated to you, yeah ). Besides, it's not easy to leave a language you like to learn another OOP one.
So you would say: "then go to Monkey-X and f*ck off!" Yeah but... I fear that there exist some problems, especially about debugging features and lacking native libraries. The author seems to go full time to MX2 and that doesn't say anything good to me. I wouldn't call it abandoned but sure thing is that it's not going to receive major updates (like a certain PB 6 that we know is going to happen sometimes ).

Anyway, that's my thoughts. Maybe there are some tools I don't know, and that's why I had to write this post; just to have opinions from better developers than me.

[yoxola]

Monkey is a good programming language with cross-platform capibilities.
It's actually more than "making game", it's a all rounder with very skilled developer based community.

However, BlitzMax/Monkey is for mainly "coders" that can/have time to dive into it deeply, and the language is like a fusion of some other static languages(which is not bad, as Monkey have very good optimization compared to other game dev languages), but, if you need quick prototyping, a simpler game engine may serve better, like Love2D, libGDX etc.

BTW you may have already know the dev of monkey is solely driven by Mark Sibly, there may be some other assist developers to make modules, personally I think you have to be somehow a seasoned developer to know what the Mark is doing and fully utilizing the language.

And the 2 cents is, try some open source game engines like Godot, Superpowers, Gideros, CocosCreator, they're more into actually focus on game making and advanced enough to have good scripting support.

[IdeasVacuum]

What about MP3D? It's written in PB for PB - not only that, if there is a specific feature you need, you can request it.
http://www.purebasic.fr/english/viewtop ... 27&t=43601

[Joubarbe]

Thanks guys! LÖVE seems fun; I should try MP3D; last time I checked, it was in early alpha, but it's probably better now!

EDIT: any opinions on AGK?

[tj1010]

FYI SpiderBasic now does what Monkey-X does and is the only other thing with the clean syntax and clean IDE.

The bad things about Monkey-X:

• Kind of slow and sometimes even abandoned core-development
• Java like syntax
• Annoying plugin workflow
• The only way to get GPS and sensor support is using hackey plugins that don't work across devices and are usually abandoned
• Cost? I see it as being worth it considering it makes stuff that generates exponential revenue, but supposedly charging for work and goods is a bad thing with a rather large international demographic..

After SB and MX I'd go with LiveCode or GoDot for mostly the same reasons. Take in to consideration I don't give a crap about what's cool or has strong-marketing I care about time and performance. I've had to develop very-large ready for market apps before on extremely tight deadlines with no team. I still remember when I was doing this using native tools with no experience.

[Joubarbe]

Can you tell me what you mean exactly by "SpiderBasic does what MX does"? I'm not really interesting in web languages (I definitely won't have a job in the industry ).

I agree with your considerations about performance. I won't buy MX because of that and some things that been said earlier.
AGK is "marketing crap" (and everything I don't like in BASIC); and yeah, I have an interest in Godot. The python-like language is a plus (development being a hobby for me, the language must be "fun"). But maybe PB is good enough after all!

[tj1010]

Can you tell me what you mean exactly by "SpiderBasic does what MX does"? I'm not really interesting in web languages (I definitely won't have a job in the industry ).

I agree with your considerations about performance. I won't buy MX because of that and some things that been said earlier.
AGK is "marketing crap" (and everything I don't like in BASIC); and yeah, I have an interest in Godot. The python-like language is a plus (development being a hobby for me, the language must be "fun"). But maybe PB is good enough after all!

SB now builds apps. Even if they are webview based(I haven't looked) it's good considering how clean the ide and language are.

AGK has the same problem DarkBASIC(also a TGC product) had. Basically long waits for patches. It also has no UI stuff and no threads.

[Dude]

SB now builds apps.

What do you mean? Last time I looked at SpiderBasic, it output JavaScript that you had to upload to your website. Anyone could view this code to "steal" your work. Is this still the case?

[Danilo]

The author seems to go full time to MX2 and that doesn't say anything good to me.
I wouldn't call it abandoned but sure thing is that it's not going to receive
major updates (like a certain PB 6 that we know is going to happen sometimes ).

Why not just use MonkeyX 2 then? It's greatly enhanced over MonkeyX 1 syntax,
and it's free open-source software.

You wouldn't complain PB 3.x doesn't get updates anymore, would you?

MX2 is the successor/replacement/follower for MX1.

[tj1010]

SB now builds apps.

What do you mean? Last time I looked at SpiderBasic, it output JavaScript that you had to upload to your website. Anyone could view this code to "steal" your work. Is this still the case?

It builds APK and APP now. APK using signed JSDK builder. I haven't looked at it. It's 2.0 which is in beta.

If someone said I as one person had to build a commercial 2D game by the end of december here is what I'm using by preferential order: LiveCode, GoDot, SpiderBASIC. I'll probably be dedicated to SB if they keep on track with it. It's already pretty powerful.

But on a side-note: All the cool stuff with IOS or Android you still have to use Studios. Hardware crypto storage, process stuff, low-level sandbox interfaces "administrator" process APIs etc..

[Danilo]

@Joubarbe:
Just in case you didn't notice:
2016/11/11 - Website update and new binary releases! (v1.1.01 released)

- Facebook - BlitzResearchLtd

[Joubarbe]

Thanks

EDIT: ok, I think I'll go with Godot. I love Python and the editor is very well thought. Thanks again, I didn't know this engine (a shame, because I'm probably not the only one ^^).

[zxretrosoft]

I bought products Monkey-X Studio (plus TimelineFX and Pyro).

My experience, if I can afford.

Positives:
Monkey-X is a very friendly language, probably the best OOP what I know.
Many elements of Basic.
Ability to set a 'pivot point' on the sprite (unlike PB).
There is an extension, a series of modules and frameworks.
Ability to use outputs from different editors (eg. Tiled Map Editor).
Object oriented programming.
The gentle support on the forum.

Negatives:
Not so easy compile to Android and other platforms.
TimelineFX is amazing, but HTML5 is slow (very slow).
Pyro has some clever modules, but develops already in MX2.
Jungle IDE is NOT better than PureBasic IDE.

This is my first experiment in MonkeyX (HTML5):
http://knr.euweb.cz/MonkeyGame.html

P. S. Pity that PureBasic does not support Particles in 2D. It is very atractive today!

P. S. 2: And about AGK2, I also have it. AGK2 is very nice product. I don't think it's 'marketing crap'. Built on the DarkBasic, easy output to HTML5/Android/EXE. Very fast. Commands for physics (unlike PB) and particles (unlike PB).

[tj1010]

I bought products Monkey-X Studio (plus TimelineFX and Pyro).

My experience, if I can afford.

Positives:
Monkey-X is a very friendly language, probably the best OOP what I know.
Many elements of Basic.
Ability to set a 'pivot point' on the sprite (unlike PB).
There is an extension, a series of modules and frameworks.
Ability to use outputs from different editors (eg. Tiled Map Editor).
Object oriented programming.
The gentle support on the forum.

Negatives:
Not so easy compile to Android and other platforms.
TimelineFX is amazing, but HTML5 is slow (very slow).
Pyro has some clever modules, but develops already in MX2.
Jungle IDE is NOT better than PureBasic IDE.

This is my first experiment in MonkeyX (HTML5):
http://knr.euweb.cz/MonkeyGame.html

P. S. Pity that PureBasic does not support Particles in 2D. It is very atractive today!

P. S. 2: And about AGK2, I also have it. AGK2 is very nice product. I don't think it's 'marketing crap'. Built on the DarkBasic, easy output to HTML5/Android/EXE. Very fast. Commands for physics (unlike PB) and particles (unlike PB).

I never said AGK2 was "marketing crap". I said that in general because most people use dev tools based on marketing. Unity, Titanium, Xamarin etc..

I said AGK had poor development, but anyone can go to TGC forums and look at the timelines for AGK bug reports and fixes as well as for any other TGC products that still has a forum..

It'd be interesting seeing binary-size and runtime-averages for SB vs AGK2. Even though AGK2 lacks most of what SB offers.

PB isn't specifically a game-language which is why a lot of people use it. SB doesn't have particles but has sprites and anything a 2D game needs. I have two 2D games in SB and one has physics and AI.

DarkBASIC was a C++ DirectX engine and none of it was used for AGK. I wrote a lot of DLLs for DarkBASIC before coming to PB because I needed more than a single-thread(like AGK2 is) game language and didn't have time to do stuff in C++ or Python.

[zxretrosoft]

Yes I agree about 'commercial crap'. I'm sorry, that my English

Physics in SB? Yes, but it's too complicated (as in PB). In AGK2 are physics-commands. Very simple. Similary Particles (Parcitles are important). I know that PB/SB is not primarily for games. But it is perhaps a pity. Just a little, and PB/SB is much more versatile