Thank You

[ANDY ANDERSON]

Roughly 4 months ago, I decided it was time to leave PowerBasic because
it is 32 bits and I needed 64 bits. After all, at some point in the near
future, Windows will not operate 32 bits programs. I looked at several
other languages and even coded a couple of small programs in each.

Then I came across this forum and liked what I saw. It was fairly active
and the members seemed willing to help newbies without being annoyed.
Further investigation indicated that the language support by the owners
was much better than average.

Luis and Danilo convinced me to buy in to PureBasic and I have no regrets.

The help from forum members has been exceptional and I want to say THANKS
to all of you.

I code mundane business accounting applications and am a quarter of the
way through converting a 300 program system.

You might find it curious that I am doing it in ASCII mode. Danilo, I think,
asked me why I would do that when I would have to do it all over again when
PureBasic drops support for ASCII.

The short and simple answer is that I won't have to. I am 71.5 years old and
plan to retire at 75. ASCII 64 bits will see me through just fine for the next
3.5 years. If I am still around when 128 bits becomes the norm, I'll move to
another language. Perhaps, another version of Basic will have matured by then.

Thanks again to all of you.

[yoxola]

It's great to programming for such a long while.

BTW Windows 10 is coming and that'll be last for a few years so Win32 may exist under WoW64 for a while although you know it's not 100% true Win32 but at least works like it should be.

I'm moving to HTML5, Python, Lua, those languages are less platform dependent, however I still using PureBasic.

[Dude]

at some point in the near future, Windows will not operate 32 bits programs

Yes it will. The majority of Windows software is 32-bit based. Microsoft can't just cut that off. Then again, they cut off Aero Glass just like that, so you may be right. But I doubt it.

[TI-994A]

I'm moving to HTML5, Python, Lua, those languages are less platform dependent...

It's always good to learn and use other programming languages, although some may prove to be less productive.

HTML5 (with JavaScript and CSS3) is no doubt the de facto standard for browser-based programming, but not so otherwise. To break free from the confines of the browser and interact with device hardware, extensive libraries are required. And to make standalone web-apps, large browser engines have to be bundled with them. The learning curves are pretty steep, and the resultant apps are slow and sizable, and are known to perform inconsistently across platforms.

Being interpreted languages, Lua and Python also suffer from the same speed and size issues.

If you'd really like to branch out, I'd recommend Java and C/Objective-C; and only because they're the official development languages for Android and iOS/OSX.

[ANDY ANDERSON]

Thanks, Y0X0LA, for the compliment on my programming longevity.

I started in 1963 which was probably before you were born. In
those days, you took a deck of punched cards out of a metal
filing cabinet and loaded the operating system. Then, you took
another deck of cards and loaded your program. That may be how
the term "canned program" came about. When it bombed, the
machine would dump the memory to printer. If you couldn't read
binary/hexadecimal, you were SOL.

I did my Master's thesis on a B5500 which was octal coded, 3 bits
to a byte. I've been through about a dozen languages. I never
mastered any of them but was able to cobble/kludge together what
I needed at the time.

Time waits for no one and my mind is not anywhere near as sharp as
it used to be. But I am grateful that it is still lucid enough to
continue programming.

[the.weavster]

HTML5 (with JavaScript and CSS3) is no doubt the de facto standard for browser-based programming, but not so otherwise. To break free from the confines of the browser and interact with device hardware, extensive libraries are required.

Want a way to easily create server applications? Node.js.
Looking for the easiest way to create an Android app? DroidScript.
Want to target Linux, Windows, OSX, Android, iOS, Tizen, Ouya, Flash and HTML5 from one code base? OpenFL.
Want to build yourself a bluetooth voice controlled robot? Espruino.

What do all the above have in common? JavaScript.
JavaScript broke free from the confines of the browser quite some time ago.

BTW both Mozilla's IonMonkey and Google's V8 compile JavaScript to machine code.

Being interpreted languages, Lua and Python also suffer from the same speed and size issues.

Games that use Lua; from Angry Birds to World of Warcraft.
Compile your Python using Cython.

[Tenaja]

Being interpreted languages, Lua and Python also suffer from the same speed and size issues.

Games that use Lua; from Angry Birds to World of Warcraft.
Compile your Python using Cython.

In this modern age, there is now a compiler for almost every "interpreted" language...you just have to work harder find it for the more obscure languages.

Ten or twenty years ago people still claimed Basic was interpreted, even though that was the exception, because of an old mindset. We should be mindful of progress within other languages as well.

[Little John]

Roughly 4 months ago, I decided it was time to leave PowerBasic because
it is 32 bits and I needed 64 bits.

Hi,

I don't know whether you are aware of this documentation by Amilcar Matos.
It might be helpful for you.

[TI-994A]

...Node.js.
...DroidScript.
...OpenFL.
...Espruino.

What do all the above have in common? JavaScript.

Hi weavster. Impressive list, although I was referring to HTML5. Nevertheless, OpenFL uses Haxe, not JavaScript.

Games that use Lua; from Angry Birds to World of Warcraft.

Both Angry Birds and World of Warcraft were developed in C/C++. Lua was only used for the interface and add-ons.

Compile your Python using Cython.

Cython compiles hybrid C/Python code into extensions for use in Python programs; they're ultimately still interpreted.

there is now a compiler for almost every "interpreted" language...

Quite true, although not for these two.

[the.weavster]

Hi weavster. Impressive list, although I was referring to HTML5. Nevertheless, OpenFL uses Haxe, not JavaScript.

"Haxe is an open source toolkit based on a modern high level strictly typed programming language"
Haxe is the toolkit, the high level language in question is JavaScript.

Both Angry Birds and World of Warcraft were developed in C/C++. Lua was only used for the interface and add-ons.

Lua was designed to be lightweight, embeddable and fast. Tools like Cocos 2dx, Corona, Moai and Gideros enable you to create games for mobile devices using Lua. Sure the underlying libraries are C and Lua is just the glue code but my point really was there's very few scenarios where Lua wont give you the performance you need.

Cython compiles hybrid C/Python code into extensions for use in Python programs; they're ultimately still interpreted.

Adding additional details like type declarations for variables that map to rudimentary C types is optional but gives you more performance, you can compile pure Python code. Cython enables you to significantly shift the balance between compiled code and glue code (actually Python is the exception in this discussion because it does have its own platform).

It just seemed to me you were expressing a rather outdated view of the usefulness and purpose of high level interpreted languages by dismissing them as having "size and speed issues" when in reality these languages are becoming ever more relevant. JavaScript and Lua do not have their own platform by design, they are created specifically to be embeddable whenever a platform would benefit from a scripting capability.

You can now create a UI for Qt using JavaScript and expose your own C++ classes to the JavaScript interpreter. QtQuick/QML was developed by NOKIA for Harmattan on the N9 and is now used for Jolla's Silica UI, the Ubuntu Touch UI and I don't doubt the BB10 UI as well. It has now been expanded to include QtQuick controls that enable you to create desktop UIs in JavaScript too.

EFL (as used in the Enlightenment desktop, Samsung's Touchwiz UI and Tizen's native UI) now includes LuaJIT by default and a system of generating automated bindings for all the EFL libraries is in development.

JavaScript and Lua offer a world of possibilities.

[Tenaja]

there is now a compiler for almost every "interpreted" language...

Quite true, although not for these two.

Don't be too sure...

[ANDY ANDERSON]

Thanks, Little John.

I downloaded the PDF and intend to contribute some of my own
homespun routines to the mix at some point.

[TI-994A]

Don't be too sure...

But I am. Am I wrong, perhaps?

Haxe is the toolkit, the high level language in question is JavaScript.

Actually, it has its own proprietary programming language; the Haxe language.

...Lua is just the glue code but my point really was there's very few scenarios where Lua wont give you the performance you need.

Lua was designed specifically as an extension language, which is why it has become the language of choice among many platforms and frameworks. However, on its own, with its extremely slight core library, it's still interpreted; hardly a performer by any standards.

...you can compile pure Python code. Cython enables you to significantly shift the balance between compiled code and glue code

True, although the final program still has to run through the interpreter; a major bottleneck.

...JavaScript and Lua do not have their own platform by design, they are created specifically to be embeddable...

Not quite. Limited as it may be, Lua also works as a standalone development tool.

It just seemed to me you were expressing a rather outdated view of the usefulness and purpose of high level interpreted languages by dismissing them as having "size and speed issues" when in reality these languages are becoming ever more relevant.

The size and speed of the final product are important issues to consider when selecting a development platform; not just popularity. And the popularity of these languages is not due to their speed or power, but their simplicity and portability.

Furthermore, it would be highly misleading to think that familiarity with any of these languages would denote the ability to master the various platforms and frameworks that implement them. That's just not true, as each of these platforms and frameworks would present their own steep learning curves to contend with.

Nevertheless, far be it for me to dismiss their relevance; which I didn't.

[the.weavster]

Actually, it has its own proprietary programming language; the Haxe language

OK, let's just say anybody who knows JavaScript will find it very easy to be productive with OpenFL because the proprietary haXe language that OpenFL uses is so remarkably like JavaScript you'll hardly notice the difference.

However, on its own, with its extremely slight core library, it's still interpreted; hardly a performer by any standards.

Clearly sufficient performance to write games that run on constrained devices.

Are you still running on a TI-994A by any chance?

[Danilo]

OK, let's just say anybody who knows JavaScript will find it very easy to be productive with OpenFL because the proprietary haXe language that OpenFL uses is so remarkably like JavaScript you'll hardly notice the difference.

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haxe

Haxe 1.0 was released in April 2006, with support for Adobe Flash applications,
and Haxe 2.0 was released in July 2006, adding support for Javascript programs.
[...]
Haxe is the successor to the open-source ActionScript 2 compiler MTASC, also built by Nicolas Cannasse
[...]
Haxe has much in common with ActionScript 3.

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ActionScript#Syntax

The basic syntax is derived from ECMAScript.

(Just for info )