Image and future of Win32 pure...

BackupUser · Post by **BackupUser** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 7:26 pm

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by MrVainSCL.

Hi @ all,
following text will only mirror my privat mind and opinion about the actual win32 pure version and i dont want demotivate nor fight with someone!

I thought all the time that pure is a very nice and easy language. But esp. since the last version for Win32 some software developers of a company where i work atm opened me the eyes! They would like to use and code maybe some parts in pure too, if there are not following problems or limitations...

1. Bugs:
To many bugs. Just take a look to the very big bug report list last time and to some really strange bugs that should not be happen in a language like math problems, and many many things that are normaly absolutly basic and standards - but they dont work atm! Its really sad and a very bad image esp for people wanna move to pure! ;(

2. Doubles:
The company where i work is coding some plugins for CAD and some other very high level endproducts, where the coders are in need to use real exactly floats and doubles! Since i am using pure (v2.50) a lot of people are still waiting up to today for this in a coding language very important feature! ;(

3. Resources:
How often have i read this on the forum? Just to often, sorry! We have always commands to catch some stuff but not all like modules and some more stuff! Resources would give pure one more and big touch of a professional sdk, where people can add all stuff (even manifest i.e.) to resources and grab it with a special pure commands or api i.e.!? There are a lot of reasons why pure should support long awaited resources too!

This are only some points... there are a lot more points i could tell... but i respect FredÂ´s work on pure and dont want get in fight with someone here! This is just my personal and maybe hard discused opinion atm about the latest pure version.

So i can only hope that we will have a more stable version without so many (some basical stuff) bugs and mabye in the next or overnext version some of the topic features! I know that Fred rewrote some parts from MASM to FASM and even the main kernel of the compiler where could be added some new hidden bugs!? ;(

All in one i wanted to say, pure could have a much more professional and better image if it would support topic stuff and if interested ppl dont see such a big overgrowling bug report list

Before i would like to see a full 3D engine inclding to pure, i would like from my personal opinion to see and work with a more stable version featuring topic stuffs!

Happy coding to @ll...

greetz
MrVainSCL! aka Thorsten

PIII450, 256MB Ram, 80GB HD + 6,4 GB, RivaTNT, DirectX9.0, SB AWE64, Win2000 + all Updates...

BackupUser · Post by **BackupUser** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 8:55 pm

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by dmoc.

Agree + project oriented editor, forms designer, OLE controller
support and an easier way to add commands (it's ironic that Blitz
users are now enhancing Blitz using PB dlls).

BackupUser · Post by **BackupUser** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 9:00 pm

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Starax.

I was wondering if it would be best for Fred to stop adding graphics and sound based commands to Purebasic and just concentrate on the actual Purebasic language itself. I would go as far as saying he should take all the commands out of Purebasic and making a Purebasic Lite. Then he could let the users themselves add the multimedia commands. This would need a new format for user commands, I wouldn't want all the commands ending with a _ character. We would also need a webpage where we could share all the user made commands/libraries.

I definitely think there is a demand for a Basic compiler that can produce executables in a similar way to C compilers. Purebasic is the closest there is to it. But unfortunately it needs work and I think Fred is overstretching himself.

Maybe Fred wants to try to keep control of Purebasic and the thought of user-made libraries/commands is leaning too much towards open source.

If Fred ever decides to take the path I mentioned above then perhaps he could remove the word 'basic' from the title. I think that Basic has a bit of a bad image, if you tell somebody that you've written a program then their opinion of that program takes a sudden nose dive when you tell them that it was written in Basic. Perhaps it could be called something that sounds complicated like 'XL32sys'. This should really baffle the ignorant buggers who think Basic is an inferior programming language.

BackupUser · Post by **BackupUser** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 9:19 pm

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by MrVainSCL.

@dmoc: exactly!

@Starax: i dont agree that fred should take off all sound and graphic commands... Some ppl coding appz and using drawing operations (GDI) in there apps for example. Maybe fred should only concentrate first the app stuff and fix all known bugs to have a more stable version without some strange basical stuff and then he can add the topic features! If this parts are done, fred can still continue on the other stuff and at least on the 3d engine stuff (just my opinion)

And between of the word "purebasic"... basic means "easy" and esp newbies will search for a basic language first... i dont think that a c/c++/c#/asm coder will move so fast over to pure as long is it is not possible to write big and complex appz... and i dont mean the small appz people here are coding! (maybe some guys understand what i mean and want to say?!) On the other side, there are "VisualBasic, BlitBasic, XBasic, and a lot more of some known basic languages!

Most important for a language is that it has a good and stable SDK envirement and you can do all stuff you need without any limitations as pure has atm.

greetz
MrVainSCL! aka Thorsten

PIII450, 256MB Ram, 80GB HD + 6,4 GB, RivaTNT, DirectX9.0, SB AWE64, Win2000 + all Updates...

BackupUser · Post by **BackupUser** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 9:26 pm

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by plouf.

Firstly i agree that all this stuff should be added, but lets think
some thinks better i.e. you can Write UserLibraries for PureBasic
in Asm or C so it is not different than Pure libs plus that there is no problem to use any dll with Pure
but with what i totally disagree is to remove the Basic from PureBasic
the fact that there are exist people out there that believe that Basic=BadCode to me it sounds like THEY have no idea of what they are talking about so i could take their advices... in serious

anyway don't forget that everybody seems more important what he is needed for himself , and there are few game coders out there

anyway as you propably know allready it will be a form designer aka
GuiBuilder for next version

Christos

BackupUser · Post by **BackupUser** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 12:16 am

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by TheBeck.

MrVainSCL I agree on all three of your points, bugs, doubles and resources. PureBasic needs a resource compiler and doubles, not a 3D engine. Just my 2 cents.

BackupUser · Post by **BackupUser** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 2:35 am

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by ricardo.

I think that maybe i understand what Fred are thinking:

Add more features will drive more users here and give us more possibilities, and he is right thinking that way.

BUT...

a) Im not sure if Fred are clear about the orientation that PureBasic will have. Its a games-language or an application-language. Maybe some of the problems is on this point.
Reading this forums i think that most coders here are application coders and thats why we read often complaining about 3d vs double, etc.

b) Adding features often is so nice, but there should be a bug-correction after each version.
If 3.60 will be released next week (just imagin) then the next 2 or 3 weeks should be dedicated ONLY to fix all the bugs, then we will have 3.61 3.62 etc. Until the app is bug free and THEN continuing adding new features.

The priority -in my opinion- should be to decide if PB will be a game-language or an application-language, then all the rest will be logical. Otherwise ppl will still complaining about game features when ther are some application bugs or limitations.

Best Regards

Ricardo

Dont cry for me Argentina...

BackupUser · Post by **BackupUser** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 3:28 am

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by freak.

As this discussion now goes on for some time and doesn't want to stop, I think, i have to tell you, what I think, too...

About Doubles:
You guys are way to much impatient! We had this discussion a lot of time now, there is really nothing more to say about it. Everybody here knows now, what is missing, and why doubles would be good.

Fred sayd, that it needs a Compiler rewrite, which is much work and he also sayd that it may come in v4.0. What else do you want to hear?

Please guys, stop asking for that every 2 days. Just wait and see, i'm sure it'll come.

About Bugs:
Please tell me any Programming Language where Bugs are fixed nearly as fast as in Pb! I mean, those 2 Month Updates don't only include new Stuff. Just take a look at the History, and you'll see, that there are a lot of Bugs fixed every time.

@ricardo:
Do you really want several Updates between those allready numerous Updates? Please be realistic, Fred also has a Live and Work to do, not only fixing Bugs for you.

Exept for some Bugs that are not fixed for several Versions now, I think, the way, Updates are done ist OK.

And something more: These Math Bugs we just discovered, and you all say, that nothing can be done with such a buggy Language.
If these Bugs are so important (that you can not do anything without fixing them) why has nobody found them for 2 Years? I mean, if nobody found them, nobody seemd to do these things before.

About Recources:
I don't know much about how hard that would be to implement, but I havent missed them much yet. (Only for Icons, but I heared that would come for v3.6)

About adding new Features:
As an application programmer, i don't care much about the 3D Stuff. (Although they are fun to play with) but if Fred want's to go that direction, I have no problem with that. In fact there is not much difference to me since he started adding 3D stuff. (I don't have the feeling that he fixes less Bugs or doesn't work on the Main Thing any more.)

About a form designer:
There is nothing more to say here. It comes for v3.6 that should be enough.

----------------------------------------

All these Topics have been discussed over and over again! And if you would have listened, you would know Fred's opinion on all these Topics.

PLEASE! Stop starting this discussion every 2 days, this is really annoying!

I mean, reminding Fred from time to time is OK, but this is a little too often.

That's what I have to say about that...

Timo

BackupUser · Post by **BackupUser** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 7:07 am

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by THCM.

Hi!

Nothing to add to Freak's post. Fred is on his (right) way! Keep up the incredible work!

The Human Code Machine / Masters' Design Group

BackupUser · Post by **BackupUser** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 9:28 am

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by fred.

Damn, Freak has just done the same post I would like to do...

Fred - AlphaSND