Fred- Please support OpenGL in the future

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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by koehler.



Fred,

Not sure if you are going to be supporting Ogre with OpenGL in Windows, although you mentioned you would in the Linux distro.

Please consider re-using your work with the Linux Ogre work in Windows. Why?
Quite simple, OpenGL still seems to give better results than DX8 and probably even DX9.

As evidence, please look at the benchmarks tests from Tom's latest article: http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030120/index.html

Considering that most PB programs will be done by novice-moderate coders, I think having the extra speed advantage that OpenGL offers to be very, very important in getting new users to seriously consider PB.

If users are going to call basically the same Ogre 3D commands, why not give them the extra 20-30% boost that OpenGL seems to give?

Why not do the OpenGL coding first, for Windows, and re-useable somewhat for the Linux dist.
Then, as time goes by, you could integrate DirectX into PB, at a more leisurely rate.

Also, it does not appear that -most- people using PB, or many of the other *Basics are all using top of the line $300-400 video cards.
As such, I know DX runs much crappier on all my older cards than OpenGL. Would it not make sense to give your users the most FPS they can get out of the 'average' card out there?

If not, could we at least have a poll ? :)
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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by fred.

My choice is not stopped and switching to OpenGL is easy because OGRE supports it. But it will not be as integrated and you can say bye bye to integrated 2D, Drawing etc.. All is DX based for now. On my card, DX is faster than OGL, so it should depends of the scene complexity.

Fred - AlphaSND
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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by koehler.



Thanks Fred.

BTW, I just read that Mark Sibley is now doing a 180' and will be going back to OpenGL because DX specs keep changing, and the fact that 2D is still not supported in DX9?

Since OpenGL is the standard in Linux/BSD, and now with OS X, and pretty much everything non-Windows, I still think you could kill several birds with one stone by going OpenGL.

However, as I haven't bought PB as of yet, this is only a suggestion, and it would seem to both lower the time commitment you would need to put in if DX was standard on the Windows version, and OpenGL the standard on Linux.

Of course, the added benefit of going OpenGL would be that you could probably pretty easily port to OS X if you wanted to. That platform is just dying for a good gaming/BASIC language.

Anyways, thanks for listening, and hope to place my order next week.
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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by tranquil.

DirectX forever! (windows version)
OpenGL for Linux okay. :)


Tell me one actual graphiccard which supports OpenGL-hardware allocated. All is emulated via the driver.

Mike

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System: Windows 2000 Server, 512 MB Ram, GeForce4200 TI 128 MB DDR, Hercules Theater 6.1 DTS Sound
System 2: Mobile Pentium 4 2.4GHz 512 MB DDR GeForce4 420-32, Windows XP Home
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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by koehler.


Tranquil,

The main reason DX is now in HW on some cards is because it truely sucked when compared to OpenGL. Yes, DX is faster on some cards, however certainly not the majority, and certainly not the average ones you'll find on people who are hovvyist programmers, at least from what I've seen of the .sigs here and at BB and Dark.

I think as Ogre support OpenGL and DX, and as Fred is developing for Windows, Linux, Amiga, and he might even end up looking at OS X since it is so similar to Linux/*BSD....

From a dev standpoint, it just makes sense to do things the same on all of the PB variants. IF Fred has the time and wants to use DX, then thats fine. However, what if I want to port my game to Linux, do I then have to recode?

All I can say is that if Carmack is impressed with the direction OpenGL 2.0 is headed, then I'd say stick with it.

http://www.xtremepccentral.com/articles/opengl2/

:)
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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Kale.

I must admit i have a GeForce4 4400Ti gfx card and OpenGL stuff seems to run loads faster than DirectX. I am however happy with Fred's decision on DirectX for the 3D in WinPB, I'm easy either way. :)

--Kale

Getting used to PureBasic and falling in Love! :)
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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by NightShade.

Funny how things turn...

OpenGL was never intended to be fast. It just had to provide an industrial strenght GL. With an array of functionality that HAD to please many markets. And boy, does it show. It has been used for everything but the kitchen sink. OTOH, DX3D just had to provide a cheappo standard way to do 3D games in DX. AFAICR one of the main guys involved in DX3D WANTED to use OpenGL, but this was before nVidia was around to provide cheap (tough slow) OpenGL to the masses. So, no cigar, they went with a crappy engine, and the crappy origins STILL rear their ugly heads nowadays.

Not to say that i dont like DX. Its great, FOR 2D!!!

Just my 2cents worth :)

p.s. Ever wondered why Big Names like Lightwave/3DSMax/Softimage and other OpenGL appz DONT use D3D? Its cause they can rely on OpenGL, and they CANT afford the bugs/quirks in every D3D new release.
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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by dmoc.

NightShade, well stated. Check out the latest news on the ogl site re NVidia and ATI's new extensions which bring ogl up to DX9 functionality.
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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by NightShade.

dmoc, all u need is to draw the line between functionality and bells'n'whistles. D3D over OpenGL is like WinXP over Win2k. D3D gets all the whizzbang bells'n'whistles ASA someone comes up with them. OpenGL only gets them ASA they are STABLE, matured, and ready to work as a whole in the big scheme.

/me still didnt forgive MS for going XP and dumping 2K.
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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by fred.

2000 is NT 5.0 - XP is NT 5.1. What too said more :).

Fred - AlphaSND
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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by NightShade.

And ME was 98SE.5 ? And OpusMagellan was OS4prerelease??? Just because core is same, OS is not. OS is a whole, and XP/ME is a pile of nedless junk. W2k was NT4 with post-sp6 updates, like AGP/USB/etc. XP was W2k with lame/unstable ME features and fluff. But u know what i meant in previous post :P
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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Fangbeast.

Just to be a stirrer.....

I've generally found that people who say "XP/ME is a pile of nedless junk" either don't know how to use it or didn't follow Microsoft's advice on hardware compatibility. I've been running XP here for 2 years with little or no trouble at all.

Hope you were generalising and not serious because I am falling all over the floor laughing here :)

Fangles woz ear orright den?
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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by fred.

Same for me... And what when 2k will not be supported anymore by MS, like NT4 is ? :)

Fred - AlphaSND
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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by dmoc.

Easy, switch to Linux!
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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by fred.

dmoc: you still don't have switched ?!

Fred - AlphaSND
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