This Company Sucks..

[utopiomania]

Toyota Sucks

I will never buy one of their cars again, ever.

Read the posters comments, the knew about this problem, but did nothing.

[Trond]

Read the posters comments, the knew about this problem, but did nothing.

One comment says these mats were recalled in 2007.

[netmaestro]

Oh come on! Their accelerator's stuck and they're frantically calling for help? No choice but to go tearassing down the highway with the hammer down? They can't turn the key off? They can't put the trans in neutral? They can't push on the brake? The brake will overcome the engine every time. This is a staged video..

[Kuron]

User error, blame Toyota. Toyota has and continues to make the best and most reliable cars in the world.

Unfortunately, Toyota made a major mistake and refused to take bailout money that was offered to them. Because of that, there are certain people who will not rest until Toyota is driven into bankruptcy. This is how the legalized version of the "mafia protection" racket works. They use legal means to drive you out of business instead of simply burning your business down to the ground.

This is a staged video..

Sadly, people really are that stupid.

If your gas pedal sticks on your floor mat (which is the supposed problem and reason for the recall), use the heel of your foot to move the floor mat off of the gas pedal. Floor mats slide around in cars, they always have and always will. If you are that concerned, simply pick up the floor mat and stick it in the trunk.

[Joakim Christiansen]

Oh come on! Their accelerator's stuck and they're frantically calling for help? No choice but to go tearassing down the highway with the hammer down? They can't turn the key off? They can't put the trans in neutral? They can't push on the brake? The brake will overcome the engine every time.

I agree that one who is not able to stop the car in such a situation should probably not drive in the first place.

This is a staged video..

I don't think so. And I've heard about the exact same problem before btw.

Btw (what to do):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT07_JbnKWQ
He also shows how the brake can get fucked up...

[Trond]

Oh come on! Their accelerator's stuck and they're frantically calling for help?
They can't turn the key off?

This Lexus model has an electronic, keyless ignition.

They can't put the trans in neutral?

I recently read a newspaper article about an episode where a Lexus of the same make started accellerating all by itself. The driver did in fact put the car into neutral, and it did absolutely nothing. She even put it in reverse. She also tried the brakes without luck.

They can't push on the brake? The brake will overcome the engine every time.

This Lexus model has hydraulic brakes controlled by electronic. If the electronic somehow hangs, then the pressing the brake will do absolutely nothing.

I don't believe this has anything to do with floor mats. In the article I read the car suddenly started decellerating without the driver moving the floormat away. Also, if it was simply the floor mat, pressing the brakes or putting it into neutral would stop the car, as you all say. Now I don't believe people are so stupid they don't think of pressing the brakes when their car is going too fast. IMO when a car is running at 150 km/h and accellerating while in neutral, the cause can't possibly be related to the gas pedal, as the engine should not be connected to the wheels. Please think.

[Trond]

Btw (what to do):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT07_JbnKWQ
He also shows how the brake can get fucked up...

The video comment by the uploader states that "Initially thought to be an issue with floor mats, the real problem involves the cars electronic throttle system." which is exactly my conclusion as well. Moving the floormat away won't help with that, would you all be a little less condemning, people aren't stupid, they know how to stop a car.

[Kuron]

I recently read a newspaper article about an episode where a Lexus of the same make started accellerating all by itself. The driver did in fact put the car into neutral, and it did absolutely nothing. She even put it in reverse. She also tried the brakes without luck.

So we are to believe that every single system in her car transmission, engine, braking, etc. suddenly failed all at once?

Lets just believe this fairy tale for sake of argument. What about riding a guard rail or all of the other methods available for stopping or slowing down or stalling a runaway car?

This Lexus model has hydraulic brakes controlled by electronic. If the electronic somehow hangs, then the pressing the brake will do absolutely nothing.

If all else fails, you have an emergency brake which is simple a lever and a cable connected directly to the brakes. There are no electronics to malfunction.

I don't believe this has anything to do with floor mats.

Nor do I, it is user error. But floor mats were the reason given for the initial recall.

Now I don't believe people are so stupid they don't think of pressing the brakes when their car is going too fast.

Who says they were actually pushing the brake pedal? Many people are stupid and should not be driving. Every day there are accidents where people drive through a house or other building or run a stop light and hit a car and the reason they give is they pressed the gas pedal instead of the brake. People are stupid and routinely press the wrong pedal when trying to stop their vehicle.

When people are scared, they panic and do even more stupid things than what they normally would do.

accellerating while in neutral

You are making the assumption the transmission was actually put into neutral. Have you actually reviewed the data from the black box in the car? Or are you just going to take the word from somebody coming up with any excuse possible to avoid potential prosecution for bad driving and unsafe handling of a vehicle?

Most people driving cars today do not understand how a car works. Add to this that the safe handling of a front wheel drive and a rear wheel drive can be very different, the same with different braking systems being used. People only learn how to drive and operate a car. They do not learn how to drive and safely operate each individual car they may buy or drive.

would you all be a little less condemning, people aren't stupid, they know how to stop a car.

People are stupid and people do not know how to stop a car. The is a very common problem that leads to accidents every day.

[UserOfPure]

So we are to believe that every single system in her car transmission, engine, braking, etc. suddenly failed all at once?

With the amount of electronics and computers in cars these days, then yes, it's very plausible that the system could "crash" and cause problems with the entire car at once. Too much reliance on electronics rather than mechanics.

Ignition: some of these are a button press, so if the electronics has failed, then pressing the button won't switch off the ignition. And even if it did, it would cut power to the steering and possibly lock the steering wheel into one position too. Not a nice option when you're barreling down the freeway.

Brakes: as shown in another YouTube video, pumping the brakes too much can cause them to actually fail and NOT respond at all anymore, so nothing more to argue there. It's been proven.

Handbrake: Thereotically should stop the vehicle when pulled, as you said; but its effectiveness when the car is moving at 150 mph is up to debate; in fact I doubt it would help when moving at those sorts of speeds. The handbrake is normally used when stationary or at much much much slower speeds.

Neutral: Why shifting into this didn't help? Not sure there. I have no answer for that, except bad electronics again maybe?

Driver: pressing the wrong pedal when panicking? Maybe at first, but I doubt it when driving along the freeway as the story mentions. You would have at least a few minutes to realise what pedal you're pushing, and that it's wrong. But then again, panic does turn people into blubbering messes, so who knows. I wonder if the style of driving is a factor here. What I mean is: I personally use only one foot to brake and accelerate: my right foot. It switches from pedal to pedal. That's how I was taught. But I've seen other people use one foot for the brake, and one for the gas. What's up with that? Seems like a recipe for disaster to me. I was always taught (by my father and driving school) that one foot is the safest way because your brain doesn't get confused as to which pedal it's on. I tried with both feet once to see what the difference was and yes, it was bloody confusing for some strange reason! It was indeed like my brain couldn't tell which foot to use at the right time. So I agree with the school that one foot is safer because the brain doesn't have to switch between commands to two legs.

Conclusion: assuming everything failed and it couldn't stop of its own accord, my best recommendation would be rub against the guard rail while applying the hand brake, as mentioned. Or, if you're behind a truck, bump into it from behind and ride against its back while applying the hand brake.

[Trond]

Kuron, I think you're acting dumb. The Lexus is controlled by electronics. Nothing physical has to fail for this to happen. Only somehow the controller program thinks you want the car going faster instead of slower. Do you really think Toyota has programmers better than ESA?

Ignition: some of these are a button press, so if the electronics has failed, then pressing the button won't switch off the ignition. And even if it did, it would cut power to the steering and possibly lock the steering wheel into one position too. Not a nice option when you're barreling down the freeway.

The Lexus does indeed have a button (it's keyless). Also I read that similar models, without keyless ignition, still have electronic ignition, and the electronics will keep the engine running as if nothing had happened (as a safety feature) if you remove the key while driving.

If all else fails, you have an emergency brake which is simple a lever and a cable connected directly to the brakes. There are no electronics to malfunction.

Firstly, most cars can be driven comfortably with the handbrake on. Second, electronic handbrakes have been on the market since 2001 according to Wikipedia. Guess what? At least some lexuses have electronic handbrakes. Some Lexuses even seem to shipped without handbrakes, according to what I see in reviews (and I can't find anything in the pictures either, so I guess it's true).
Here's the interior, find the handbrake:

Most people driving cars today do not understand how a car works.

You included. Lexus cars are not mechanic machines like cars were 30 ago. These cars are made to drive by themselves. No wonder they do.

Driver: pressing the wrong pedal when panicking? Maybe at first, but I doubt it when driving along the freeway as the story mentions.

I seriously doubt this as well. No doubt people press the wrong pedal at first, but when it doesn't work they will try the other one. Even though people are indeed dumb, they have some kind of survival instinct, or they wouldn't be here.

Or are you just going to take the word from somebody coming up with any excuse possible to avoid potential prosecution for bad driving and unsafe handling of a vehicle?

That's nothing. Have you any idea what kind of consequences Toyota wants to avoid? And you're taking their word?

[UserOfPure]

These cars are made to drive by themselves. No wonder they do.

[Demivec]

If all else fails, you have an emergency brake which is simple a lever and a cable connected directly to the brakes. There are no electronics to malfunction.

Firstly, most cars can be driven comfortably with the handbrake on. Second, electronic handbrakes have been on the market since 2001 according to Wikipedia. Guess what? At least some lexuses have electronic handbrakes. Some Lexuses even seem to shipped without handbrakes, according to what I see in reviews (and I can't find anything in the pictures either, so I guess it's true).
Here's the interior, find the handbrake

Just a small comment regarding an emergency brake or handbrake. It is more properly called a 'Parking Brake'. It is used to keep a stationary car from rolling on an incline if the car becomes shifted out of gear (into Neutral). It exerts less force that the typical brakes because it doesn't have to stop a moving car, it just prevents a car from beginning to move (no inertia). You may not see it in the photo you supplied because it can be a pedal on the floor that is operated by foot, not a handbrake.


I have no comment regarding Toyota or problems that any of their cars are suffering from.

[Kuron]

The Lexus is controlled by electronics. Nothing physical has to fail for this to happen. Only somehow the controller program thinks you want the car going faster instead of slower

And for this to happen, the ignition system would have to fail to keep you from shutting the car off, the transmission would have to fail to keep you from putting the car in neutral, the braking system would have to fail to keep your brakes from actually slowing your car. Each of these systems have their own "computer" that communicates with the main "computer". Every system would have to be malfunctioning and providing false information to each other for this scenario to have a chance of being true.

Lexus has a fail-safe system that uses double-redundancy and it will shut the car off if there is a major malfunction. There has never been a verified report for a Lexus gas pedal being stuck and the car unable to be stopped.

Kuron, I think you're acting dumb.

Why, because I prefer to deal with fact rather than comments for a YouTube video? If this magical scenario were to exist and every system was malfunctioning in an "electronic" car and you could not stop it, in the end, all you would have to do is reach under the dashboard and start yanking fuses out of the fusebox. Without electricity an "electronic" controlled car isn't going to work.

However, the accident shown in this video was a loaner 2009 Lexus ES 350. In the actual accident, the officer had taken his car in for repair and was given this loaner.

Toyota, which makes Lexus cars, had recalled the “all weather” floor mats in its 2008 version of that car model because of complaints about them sliding forward and jamming the accelerator. A sales manager at Bob Baker Lexus said he wasn't sure which mats were in the Lexus loaned to Saylor.

The official report on the accident portrayed in the video:

The cause of the August crash was determined to be a wrong-sized floor mat that entrapped the accelerator. Killed were off-duty California Highway Patrol Officer Mark Saylor and his wife, Cleofe, both 45; their 13-year-old daughter, Mahala; and Saylor’s brother-in-law Chris Lastrella.

So my floor mat solution would have saved the lives of this officer and his lovely family.

In this actual case the loaner car had been returned to the dealer days before for the same problem. In this case, the local dealer knew of the issue with this particular car when they loaned the car out. This puts the liability on the dealer, not Toyota Motor Corp, which is why the dealer was sued.

This is a case where somebody who was trained what to do in a situation like this, panicked because his family was involved and overlooked the most obvious things.

And you're taking their word?

I am not taking their word for anything. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has nothing to do with Toyota and Toyota has no control over their findings. So far, the NHTSA has not been able to verify any of the ridiculous claims people are making. I would prefer to wait and see the conclusions of an investigation that are based on fact and not hyperbole.

So far the only real "vocal" person making the talk circuit rounds about the killer cars out of a Stephen King novel has been a lady that is so "out there" most people would never let her watch a dog for an hour and would never consider letting her get behind the wheel of a motor vehicle.

Here's the interior, find the handbrake:

I can't, you are purposely using a picture that does not show underneath the dash on the drivers side where emergency/parking brake pedals are located on a Lexus. And yes, even on a Lexus, they still use an old fashioned mechanical cable and brake shoe. It is not electronic.

But I've seen other people use one foot for the brake, and one for the gas. What's up with that?

Depends on the person. A lot of the time I see it, it is from somebody who was taught on and mainly used manual transmissions and then doesn't know what to do with the left foot since there is no clutch to work

Those with a car who are concerned can spend $10 to buy the parts and build a push-button or toggle suicide switch. One switch, two wires. Simply hook one wire to each terminal of the battery. In an emergency, throw the switch and it fill fry your electronics system.

[Kuron]

It is used to keep a stationary car from rolling on an incline if the car becomes shifted out of gear (into Neutral). It exerts less force that the typical brakes because it doesn't have to stop a moving car, it just prevents a car from beginning to move (no inertia).

They are much stronger than you are giving them credit for, unless you intentionally keep yours adjusted so they are weak.

Any car I have ever owned, the emergency/parking brake will "hold" the car, even on front wheel drives when I have had the gas pedal to the floor. I do not use them as much when they are a pedal as opposed to a handle, but when driving, I often will give the handle a yank. Its great for tailgaiters, as you can give a yank and instantly slow down without flashing your brake lights. It is fun watching tailgaiters suddenly "check up". On front wheel drives, the emergency/parking brake is also a must have for doing 180s.

[UserOfPure]

Its great for tailgaiters, as you can give a yank and instantly slow down

Yes, but if you're doing 150 mph would it still slow you down so quickly? I doubt it. More like the wheel would shred the brake due to the high revolutions.