Seminal Musicians

Dare · Post by **Dare** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:38 am

I was going to title this "Musicians who changed the world" but that is not quite right. Maybe "Musicians who changed the world of music" would be more accurate.

Anyhow I was wondering which musicians (famous or otherwise) you might consider seminal. That is, highly influential in an original way and providing a platform or impetus for further development.

Some names spring to mind (Elvis, Beatles, Dylan, Beethoven and so on) but I am not sure all of them were seminal. Some were just famous.

So who do you think was seminal, and why?

electrochrisso · Post by **electrochrisso** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:53 am

Well Dare there are quite a lot.

Motorhead
Hawkwind
Manfred Mann
Miles Davis Jr
BB King
The Police
Dire Straits
Pink Floyd
Black Sabbath
Jimmy Hendrix
The Who

Just to mention a few

Dare · Post by **Dare** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:13 am

Hi electrochrisso,

Some nice musicians there!

But how did they change the musical world? What impact did they have that was so new and different and also viable - lived on.

thefool · Post by **thefool** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:00 pm

Personally I think Kraftwerk have had much more influence than all of the ones you mentioned

What impact they had? Oh they simply made an impact on just about any modern style of music. Possibly the biggest impact ever. Some would of course complain against this, while others support.

But when we are at it:
Queen. According to me one of the best bands ever

Also made an impact on a lot of rock genres.

wiki says about queen:

Some of the musicians that have cited the band as an influence include: Anthrax, Ben Folds Five,[45] Boston, Blind Guardian,[46] Def Leppard,[47] The Darkness, Extreme,[48] Foo Fighters, The Germs, The Go Go's, Davey Havok, The Killers,[49] Steve Vai,[50] Guns N' Roses,[51]Helloween,[52]Iron Maiden,[53]Judas Priest,[54]Kansas,[55] Metallica,[56] George Michael, Marilyn Manson, Kaiser Chiefs, Muse, Mika,[57]My Chemical Romance,[58] Nine Inch Nails, Panic! at the Disco, Radiohead, The Smashing Pumpkins, Switches, Max Cavalera,[59][60] Styx,[61], Sweet,[62] Dragonforce and Cesare Cremonini; amongst others.

Michael Jackson was a friend of Mercury's in the early 1980s and cited the Hot Space album as a driving influence behind the making of his 1982 album Thriller on which Mercury was originally scheduled to appear.

"Stone Cold Crazy", from 1974's Sheer Heart Attack album, is often cited as an early precursor of the speed- or thrash metal subgenre.

etc etc

Dare · Post by **Dare** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:25 pm

Queen. Yes. & Freddy Mercury.

What about:

Iron Butterfly, for heavy metal?

Buddy Holly, Rock and roll?

Beatles - exploring lots of avenues.

traumatic · Post by **traumatic** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:50 pm

IMHO The Beatles have been (and still are) the most influenting bands of all
times in the wide genre of pop music. Whatever harmony today's (pop-)songwriters
come up with - Beatles already did them (...with some exaggeration).

naw · Post by **naw** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:18 pm

I first chose my favourite bands (but that wasnt what Dare asked) then I started thinking about it properly and this is my *definitive* list covering singers/bands from 1911 - today...

Robert Leroy Johnson (the man who allegedly sold his soul to play the blues)

Willie 'The Lion' Smith (bridges the gap between Marching Bands and early Jazz - teaches Louis Armstrong how to play)

Chick Webb (drummer and band leader, plays music for dancers, discovers Ella Fitzgerald)

Louis Jordan (Jazz/Swing Jump Blues - a huge influencer of all the next generation Rock'n'Rollers - fired by Chick Webb for outshining his star Ella and trying to steal her for his new band, also regarded as a precursor to modern day Rap with songs such as Look out Sister and Saturday Night Fish Fry)

Louis Prima (the *acceptable* white face of Jazz/Swing Jump Blues and a huge influence on subsequent white RocknRoll)

Little Richard (outrageous showmanship and early Rock'n'Roller, phenomenal pianist and camper than a Butlins Holiday - perhaps the first overtly *androgenous* performer)

(the young) Elvis Presley (the acceptable white face of early Rock'n'Roll, horribly mis-managed by Colonel Tom Parker (we've all seen those cheesy Elvis films & Ballads)

Ray Charles (Bridges the gap between Gospel & Jazz|Blues|Country|Funk)

James Brown (the Godfather of Soul & the Father of Funk - creates timeless 10 minute songs out of 10 second Riffs - cites Louis Jordan as his greatest influence)

Queen/Freddy Mercury (surely the singlemost recognisable 70's GlamRock Icon, widely regarded (wrongly) as the inventor of the Pop Video)

Pink Floyd (Rock music becomes an event in itself - not just something to listen to)

Michael Jackson (the father of modern day *Pop* and introduces heavily choreographed routines to stage shows and videos)

Boyzone/Westlife/SpiceGirls (Dull Ballads redefine Easy Listening - bands are overtly created by marketing men who now own all new music)

Prince/NIZLOPI/Gnarls Barklay/David Gray (successful songs without the *help* of big budget marketing - maybe these will one day be remembered as the seminal bands who brought music back to musicians and allowed a bit of variety)

Dare · Post by **Dare** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:21 pm

Yes, the beatles are major.

I wonder who could be considered seminal from way back? Classical times, for example.

And also in particular genres. Who were the people that took them and shook them and made them happen in a big way. I know some just evolved but there must have been people who drove them along big time. The momentum-givers.

Edit: Wow, big list, maw! I'll have to look some of those names up.

Edit again. Interesting ideas there too!

Dare · Post by **Dare** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:37 pm

I wonder if Bob Marley could be considered seminal? He sort of put reggae on the map.

@maw.

Money has always controlled art to a degree, because artists need to live and eat. But there have been revolutions of sorts in those areas, haven't there? Motown, Apple (Beatles)? Also things like woodstock in the 60s?

naw · Post by **naw** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:43 pm

@Dare,

You have to check out Louis Jordan - his music is just so up-beat considering the apartheid nature of the USA of the times. Its all about music, food, dancing and (yes really) farm yard animals

but a really driving beat and clever rythms.
Jordan had 60 top 20 US Billboard Hits from 1942-51 but recorded under lots of different names cos he was under exclusive contract to several labels, so we'll never know how many hits he really had. If you become used to his music, you'll hear it constantly in commercials, TV, films. The guy is a forgotten legend. Find "Aint Nobody Here But Us Chickens"

As everyone knows

the Jungle Book is the coolest film Disney ever made because of Louis Prima's "I Wanna Be Like You"

Prima was a white Italian American who brought black Jump Blues & Jazz Swing music to the Italian Mafia - if there hadn't been a Louis Prima, could there have been a Frank Sinatra? Prima also composed "Sing, Sing, Sing" probably the greatest Swing song of all time - the definitive version was played for 7 minutes by Benny Goodman (its brill). Checkout "The Lip"

Robert Leroy Johnson is a legend (compared to Blues of the time especially) they guy was a sub-average musician who disappeared for a year and came back with an astonishing new Blues sound - the recording quality is poor, but all Blues you hear today are a result of him. Legend has it that he met the Devil at a crossroads and sold his soul to play the Blues which spawned dozens of songs and films (Crossroads/Brother Where Art Thou/Tenacious D's "Tribute") He died at 27 (allegedly poisoned) having recorded just a couple of dozen songs

Dare · Post by **Dare** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:46 pm

naw, first an apology! I mistype your nick twice!

I will follow up on those guys.

naw · Post by **naw** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:02 pm

@Dare, no harm done
if you like what you hear - I'll send you a longer list

Dare · Post by **Dare** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:37 pm

I checked out Robert Leroy Johnson. Short life but impactful. And "crossroads" seem to have played a significant part.

Listened to some of his stuff.

Okay, the man made a mark all right! Amazing number of people incorporated his lyrics and/or music into their own: Clapton/Cream (among the best musicians ever), Led Zepplin, Fleetwood mac, Dylan. Wow.

naw · Post by **naw** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:32 pm

You should check out Louis Jordan and Louis Prima as well. Calvin Boze / Bose is very Jordanesque - IMO its the same guy...

naw · Post by **naw** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:45 pm

Dare wrote:I wonder if Bob Marley could be considered seminal? He sort of put reggae on the map.

@maw.

Money has always controlled art to a degree, because artists need to live and eat. But there have been revolutions of sorts in those areas, haven't there? Motown, Apple (Beatles)? Also things like woodstock in the 60s?

Sure, but they've been quoted elsewhere - and yes I agree to an extent about the money thing, but it used to be that an artist would have a talent that (usually) would be recognised. Now it seems that the Marketing types have a formula that works and find a collection of half-talents that they can control. The group dont have enough talent to make it on their own so wont rock the boat, the marketing guy doesnt care enough about the music to attract real talent. They need each other. But the marketing guy (eg: Simon Cowell / Pete Waterman) has the money and facilities and knows how to drive the media to force his mediocre group onto the public.

Thats why nothing has really happened musically for maybe 15-20 years, Rock hasnt really changed, Pop is more formulaic, RnB / Soul has become increasingly inoffensive and *Easy Listening* to the point where my mum likes it

Rap has become more offensive but really nothing new has happened. Club music increasingly uses samples of old stuff played at high speed so it sounds like its sung by chipmunks.

If you consider ALL the advances of the last 50 years, the last 20 years have been the fastest moving, but musically we've been stagnant - perhaps even going backwards.