Monitor refresh rate too low?

[GeoTrail]

Just wondering about something, couldn't find any usefull stuff about if elsewhere so I'd thought I'd ask here.

I have a Eizo FlexScan L550 17" lcd monitor that only support refresh rates of 60 Hz. Details about if here.
My question is, after I got the monitor, my eyes get really tired quickly, I don't use glasses and I have checked my eyes and I have a crooked retina, but the eye doctor said that it should'nt cause the tiredness of the eyes. So I'm wondering, can it be because of the low refresh rate of my screen (60Hz) that might cause it? My desktop resolution is at 1280x1024. But when I play games I can only have it on 1024x768 which is lame to be honest. I have a Geforce 7900GTX graphics card. Should I lower the desktop resolution to 1024x768 or should I get a new monitor?

[DarkDragon]

Yes, try higher refreshrates, it's really better. I noticed that myself a few days ago when my eyes hurted. I can look at the desktop for a really long time, but playing a game is really hurting.

[GeoTrail]

It's kinda strange.
I have two computers connected to the monitor, mine and my girlfriends. My computer is connected using DVI and VGA on the other, I cannot change the refresh rate to higher then 60 Hz, but the old machine which uses VGA connection can use 70 Hz. Any ideas on this?

[Rescator]

60Hz gives me a headache, so I've set my gfx drivers to override all common resolutions (800x600, 1024x768 etc) to 85Hz.

I can't stand anything below 85Hz now, and at 60Hz I can see the flickering easily. (and not just from a side angle as some people only do) but straight on.

With 85Hz and 1024x768 I see no flicker and the screen is very sharp.
I did try higher resolutions and i.e. 100Hz etc. altough there was no flickers then either there was sadly a slight blurring.

So yeah. Too low refresh rate and unsharp image will guarantee you a headache and at worst reduce eyesight over time.
I'm surprised your doctor didn't ask if you used a computer and the refresh rate, it's becoming a common issue these days.

My recommendation would be at minimum 75Hz, preferably 85Hz or 100Hz.
And a resolution of 1024x768 at the minimum if you got anything smaller than a 20inch screen.
Try higher resolution and 75Hz or 85Hz or 100Hz as well, but be aware of "fuzzy" text that can occur.
Certain refresh rates and resolutions may cause unclear text and you should not have to squint your eyes.

I got 85Hz and 1024x768 on a 21inch monitor, some people might say the resolution is too small for this monitor,
maybe it is, I do notice the pixels a little. but there is no flicker and best of all the image is crystal sharp. (any higher and image get blurry sadly so 85Hz and 1600x1200 is not so nice to my eyes.)

With 85Hz and 1024x768 I'm able to sit infront of my screen with very low (almost black) room lighting for 24hr's (and have so on a few occasions)
no headache and just normal "sleep deprived" dry eyes at the end of 24hr's.
Meaning, the monitor and settings I use do not affect my eyes at all.

To many people just set way to high resolutions (and in doing so neglect checking the refresh rate or do not notice the monitor falling back to 60Hz as it can't handle 100Hz at very high resolutions)
Also, blurry image/text cause eye strain in addition.

If your current monitor can't do 85Hz in most common resolutions you use, get a new monitor (does not even have to be a new monitor). your eyes will thank you.
Also make sure to set your driver settings so that OpenGL and DirectX games are forced to use 85Hz in the most common resolutions.
I had to do this myself as trying to play games, esp. 1st person shooters at 60Hz drove me insane (the headache wasn't so nice either) after only a few seconds of "flickering".

And to all of you about to post "I use 60Hz, I don't notice any flickering!"
Do you eyes a favour use a higher refresh and you'll still be able to stare at the computer screen 20 years from now without the aid of glasses.
You may not notice the flicker, but you eyes is definetly getting a nasty beating.
Ask your doctors about how constant rapidly strobing/flashing lights might affect your eyes retinas, he'll most likely say that long time exposure to intense flashing light might cause blindness or severe vision damage.

PS! This is relative to CRT type screens (CRT monitors or TV sets) LCD and Plasma and OLED etc. uses a different technology.
Note! TV CRT screen do not have the same intense effect due to the way it assemble the image. (and the fact you do not sit with your nose a inch away, nor spend hald the day that close unlike you do at your PC)

So, take refresh rates seriously.
I have a friend who had some issues with one of his eyes, after long use of a monitor at only 60Hz (combined with maybe other issues with his eye) he is now blind on that eye.

So if you are unable to sit infront of your monitor with darkned lights more than than an hour before you get a headache or your eyes hurt, it's probably the refresh rate (or refresh rate and resolution).

Remember: Use a high refresh rate, my advice is 85Hz or higher if possible. (higher than 100Hz is not really needed. Although Playstation3 is supposed to support 120Hz)
In addition to refresh rate, make sure you pick a resolution combination that gives as sharp/clear image and text as possible, even if it means you see the "pixels" if you look closely, it can be annoying but it won't hurt your vision at least.
Get a good lamp for your room/workspace, I use a 300Watt Halogen lamp with a adjuster (light dimmer) so I can adjust the room lighting depending on the amount of screen light.
Dark games or movies I tend to turn down the room light.
For bright games or "work" (lots of white surfaces and black text) I turn the room light up.
It reduces the amount of "tunnel vision" I get after a full day infront of the screen.

Only issue I got these day is a "PC ass", it's getting a bit wide and flat. *laughs*

[Rescator]

Yes, try higher refreshrates, it's really better. I noticed that myself a few days ago when my eyes hurted. I can look at the desktop for a really long time, but playing a game is really hurting.

That's because you have Windows/desktop set to something like 75Hz or 80Hz or 85Hz right?
Check your graphics driver. (both NVidia and ATI support this, NVidia drivers is a bit harder to do this as you have to enable the feature)
You should be able to set refresh rate override.
By default almost all DirectX games (and OpenGL too I guess) use only 60Hz and not the desktop refresh rate. (badly coded games/lazy coders, and a MicroSoft mistake for the default DirectX refresh value).

[Rescator]

It's kinda strange.
I have two computers connected to the monitor, mine and my girlfriends. My computer is connected using DVI and VGA on the other, I cannot change the refresh rate to higher then 60 Hz, but the old machine which uses VGA connection can use 70 Hz. Any ideas on this?

Different gfx cards I assume? The resolution and refresh combinations varies alot between cards.
Even 70Hz could cause eye strain after many hours though, depends on the monitor. (refresh rate and resolution sharpness combination)

[Bonne_den_kule]

You are wrong. LCD only updates the pixels if the color is changing, so refresh rate is not important on LCD.
But the CRT's updates the pixels all the time, and it's this that makes the flickering.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker_(screen)

[Rescator]

JEizo FlexScan L550 17" lcd monitor that only support refresh rates of 60 Hz.
My desktop resolution is at 1280x1024. But when I play games I can only have it on 1024x768 which is lame to be honest. I have a Geforce 7900GTX graphics card. Should I lower the desktop resolution to 1024x768 or should I get a new monitor?

Since you got a LCD it's odd if it's a refresh rate issue.
LCD is Progressive in nature and lit pixels "sticks" (TV CRT looks similar in behavior but the rays linger for a while instead).
Monitor CRT's are interlaced. (causes the "flicker").

As for resolution for a LCD, always use what the LCD is rated as.
i.e. if it's native resolution is 1024x768 60Hz then my advice is to always use that. Anything else get scaled down/up to that resolution which might cause "blurred" image or text.

Also check the advanced desktop effects and test the 2-3 options for text aliasing there, might make text more readable and thereby reduce eye strain.

Also, just like with CRT's, room lighting is equally important with LCD screens. If possible adjust room lighting so it's ballanced with the light emitted by the monitor. There is no magic amount sadly,
just find the room lighting level that makes staring at the monitor "comfortable".
Also be carefull about the monitor brightness and contrast settings.
If black does not look black but has a "gray" to it, brightness is most likely too high.

[Rescator]

You are wrong. LCD only updates the pixels if the color is changing, so refresh rate is not important on LCD.
But the CRT's updates the pixels all the time, and it's this that makes the flickering.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker_(screen)

I know! I didn't see he mentioned LCD at first.
Btw! LCD and CRT difference is pointed out in my previous post!

EDIT: Thanks for the link btw Bonne,
hey Geo check out the line stating "They may however show flicker from the backlight, but it should normally be refreshed at rather high frequencies."
Maybe that could be your issue? (your LCD's backlight has a fault?) I can't think of much else that would cause severe headaches on a LCD.

[Edwin Knoppert]

You might not be able to have different refresh rates.
?

[DarkDragon]

You are wrong. LCD only updates the pixels if the color is changing, so refresh rate is not important on LCD.

So why am I getting headaches with 60Hz but not with 75Hz?
[EDIT]
Btw.: Go into a MediaMarkt of Germany and look what you can read at the LCD Monitors - "Refreshrate: 12ms"(A year ago) today it will be 8ms or lower.

[Rescator]

Geo I thought of something. You got this monitor recently right?
Assuming there is nothing wrong with it.
You could be having a delayed reaction.

Did you use a CRT before, or use a CRT at work/school?
What refresh rate did/does those have?
It could be that your eyes got accustomed (sp?) to a bad refresh rate,
so with your LCD your brain/eyes are trying to adjust back to "normal" again.

(similar to my aversion against anything else than 85Hz, my eyes are now adjusted to that refresh rate)

You could also "borrow" a different LCD and see if you still get a headache with that. If you do then it's either an adjustment issue, or it's something with (room or brightness) lighting, LCD and CRT has different lighting behaviour and the same room lighting that works with a CRT may need to be different for a LCD.

Only thing I can say now is to not give up on this,
you should be able to get a setup that allows you to sit comfortably infront of your screen for hours upon hours without discomfort.
If not then your eyes will suffer in the long run.

Try a different LCD (if you got a warranty try and get a replacement, it could be the backlighting if your lucky. if not I'm pretty clueless. LCD's are usually very "safe" for the eyes.)

[GeoTrail]

Geo I thought of something. You got this monitor recently right?
Assuming there is nothing wrong with it.
You could be having a delayed reaction.

Did you use a CRT before, or use a CRT at work/school?
What refresh rate did/does those have?
It could be that your eyes got accustomed (sp?) to a bad refresh rate,
so with your LCD your brain/eyes are trying to adjust back to "normal" again.

(similar to my aversion against anything else than 85Hz, my eyes are now adjusted to that refresh rate)

You could also "borrow" a different LCD and see if you still get a headache with that. If you do then it's either an adjustment issue, or it's something with (room or brightness) lighting, LCD and CRT has different lighting behaviour and the same room lighting that works with a CRT may need to be different for a LCD.

Only thing I can say now is to not give up on this,
you should be able to get a setup that allows you to sit comfortably infront of your screen for hours upon hours without discomfort.
If not then your eyes will suffer in the long run.

Try a different LCD (if you got a warranty try and get a replacement, it could be the backlighting if your lucky. if not I'm pretty clueless. LCD's are usually very "safe" for the eyes.)

Wow, alot of post, so much reading. Well I think I read through it all now.

Yes, I got the screen some months ago, can't remember exactly when. But I noticed the tired eyes issue after getting this screen.
My old monitor was a Dell CRT screen and I never had lower than 85 Hz on that screen and the resolution I used was usually 1024x768.

I have a PDA too, and when I play a game on it for more then an hour or so my eyes get tired too. Same thing is when I use my OLD laptop, which has a default refresh rate of 60 Hz. Don't think it can be changed either.

Is there a program I can use to try to force a higher refresh rate settings? One that is safe to use, ie will auto-reset the settings if the changes doesn't work?

Thanks guys for all your inputs Very helpfull.

Btw, my screen has a feature called Auto Brightness Regulator. Which is turned on. That means that if it's really sunny, the screen automatically turns the light on much stronger, and at night, the light is weaker.

[maw]

Even if you could force higher refresh rate, you wouldn't notice any difference whatsoever. As people have pointed out above CRT and LCD are very different.

My guess is that the reason your eyes are getting tired is that LCD is much brighter than CRT. And I do mean MUCH brighter. Try lowering the brightness/contrast/gamma and see if that doesn't help.

Also make sure you are running the native screen resolution, 1280x1024. As stated above any other resolution will be scaled and therefore blurred, which also can affect the eyes.

DarkDragon: The specified refresh rate in ms is bullshit. Nothing less, nothing more.. It's the time it will take a pixel from changing from one color to another, and believe it or not, the manufacturers has chosen the two colors that switches the fastest, often grey to grey. Normally a LCD with 2ms or 4ms today will on the slowest colors have well over 20ms response time.

[GeoTrail]

Ok, I'll try to turn off the auto-brightness feature and set the brightness abit lower. I'll see tomorrow if it helped.