Dear PureTeam!
Thanks for adding a v4 reworked HELP to the latest beta version! As we all know, some keywords has been changed or complete removed! So i thought about this little v3.xx -> v4.xx source converting problem, esp for PureBasic newbies! What about adding a special "temporary" site about command changes to the final v4 HelpFile for the next 1 or 2 releases!? What i mean...
For example... When having a source where you may read EventMenuID() and try to compile, the user will get an error due fact of a unknown keyword/command! So it would be nice, by setting the cursor on this "unknown/changed compiler keyword" and pressing F1 for the helpfile... now the user will jump direct to the "special site section", to notice the command has been changed from EventMenuID() to EventMenu() ... just an idea... What do you and other people think about this?
PB4 - Just an idea for final release
PB4 - Just an idea for final release
va!n aka Thorsten
Intel i7-980X Extreme Edition, 12 GB DDR3, Radeon 5870 2GB, Windows7 x64,
Intel i7-980X Extreme Edition, 12 GB DDR3, Radeon 5870 2GB, Windows7 x64,
conversion utility
... or better yet, a conversion utility that takes care of the bulk of command renames, etc. in your source code automatically.
Commands that require additional parameters, etc. would still need to be done by hand I suppose ... though I wouldn't put anything past Fred and the PB team!
Commands that require additional parameters, etc. would still need to be done by hand I suppose ... though I wouldn't put anything past Fred and the PB team!
@USCode
afaik someone from the german forum is working on a tool for converting 3.xx soures to 4.xx sources!?
http://forums.purebasic.com/german/viewtopic.php?t=6820
afaik someone from the german forum is working on a tool for converting 3.xx soures to 4.xx sources!?
http://forums.purebasic.com/german/viewtopic.php?t=6820
va!n aka Thorsten
Intel i7-980X Extreme Edition, 12 GB DDR3, Radeon 5870 2GB, Windows7 x64,
Intel i7-980X Extreme Edition, 12 GB DDR3, Radeon 5870 2GB, Windows7 x64,
we are not talking about betas.. we are talking about an info section (maybe up to PB4.01 or PB4.1 !?) where people can see the changes for the final HELP file... seems other people know what i mean!? It was just only an idea, esp for helping newbies (having an old sourcecode from any source)
va!n aka Thorsten
Intel i7-980X Extreme Edition, 12 GB DDR3, Radeon 5870 2GB, Windows7 x64,
Intel i7-980X Extreme Edition, 12 GB DDR3, Radeon 5870 2GB, Windows7 x64,
> we are talking about an info section (maybe up to PB4.01 or PB4.1 !?)
> where people can see the changes for the final HELP file
That's what the ReadMe is for. The Help file shouldn't list such changes
because it's irrelevant for new customers starting off with v4.00.
> where people can see the changes for the final HELP file
That's what the ReadMe is for. The Help file shouldn't list such changes
because it's irrelevant for new customers starting off with v4.00.
I compile using 5.31 (x86) on Win 7 Ultimate (64-bit).
"PureBasic won't be object oriented, period" - Fred.
"PureBasic won't be object oriented, period" - Fred.
I have often wondered at why there is such resistance to some ideas (and it seems especially in the docs and help area).
If it wouldn't hurt to have it, why not have it? If time is the factor, perhaps something like "Good idea but no time to do it" is the answer.
However, surely the idea is to get PureBasic "out there" and for clueless clots like myself, anything that flashes the "Aha, I can use this! I can code with this!" lightbulb is a plus.
In addition, PureArea and similar sites exist (Thank goodness) and carry code from way back. Early on after purchasing PureBasic I thought it was a particularly buggy piece of software because:
However, that is taking a sales and marketing viewpoint, I guess, and this seems like anathema to propeller heads, where the view is "if the product rocks it will sell itself." Discussing the docs is a good way to get into a flamewar.
Just mumbling to myself, out loud.
If it wouldn't hurt to have it, why not have it? If time is the factor, perhaps something like "Good idea but no time to do it" is the answer.
However, surely the idea is to get PureBasic "out there" and for clueless clots like myself, anything that flashes the "Aha, I can use this! I can code with this!" lightbulb is a plus.
In addition, PureArea and similar sites exist (Thank goodness) and carry code from way back. Early on after purchasing PureBasic I thought it was a particularly buggy piece of software because:
- A: Old code on download sites was incompatible
B: Dependencies on user libraries were not mentioned.
However, that is taking a sales and marketing viewpoint, I guess, and this seems like anathema to propeller heads, where the view is "if the product rocks it will sell itself." Discussing the docs is a good way to get into a flamewar.
Just mumbling to myself, out loud.
@}--`--,-- A rose by any other name ..
> I have often wondered at why there is such resistance to some ideas
In this case, it's because it links v4.00 to its obsolete past. As a newbie,
I wouldn't want to read a Help file that kept discussing commands that no
longer existed. In fact, it'd make the product look unprofessional. Would
you want to buy Visual Basic 6 and see references to old 16-bit commands
of VB3 in it, along with which command you need to use with 6 instead?
It's unnecessary and bloats the Help file for no reason. People upgrading
just need the ReadMe document which describes the upgrade instructions.
People buying PureBasic new are therefore not exposed unnecessarily to it.
In this case, it's because it links v4.00 to its obsolete past. As a newbie,
I wouldn't want to read a Help file that kept discussing commands that no
longer existed. In fact, it'd make the product look unprofessional. Would
you want to buy Visual Basic 6 and see references to old 16-bit commands
of VB3 in it, along with which command you need to use with 6 instead?
It's unnecessary and bloats the Help file for no reason. People upgrading
just need the ReadMe document which describes the upgrade instructions.
People buying PureBasic new are therefore not exposed unnecessarily to it.
I compile using 5.31 (x86) on Win 7 Ultimate (64-bit).
"PureBasic won't be object oriented, period" - Fred.
"PureBasic won't be object oriented, period" - Fred.
-
Fangbeast
- PureBasic Protozoa
- Posts: 4789
- Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2003 3:08 pm
- Location: Not Sydney!!! (Bad water, no goats)
I agree with the viewpoints espoused by the both of you on these subjects; however; let me add the following caveat.
When I started in PB just on 4 years ago, I was not a novice in programming, but definately a beginner at PB and the idea that a README.TXT file would adequately disseminate CORRECT information about the differences in syntactical changes between versions is manifestly ludicrous, counter-intuitive and unprofessional in its abundant absurdity??
Duz yer love dem long woids?? Didn't look in da dictionhairy for dem oither!
Seriously, while NEW programmers do not need to be exposed to syntactical changes necesssarily, existing coders do need a proper referential guidebook - document - link - example (whataver it is) and not just a "here's the readme, that's good enough for you" approach.
In the business world; when you sell a product; you either have examples in the examples folder that are UP TO DATE 100% with the compiler changes or you don't sell, it's that simple. Business users DO NOT WANT TO SEE PROBLEMS THE FIRST TIME THEY RUN AN EXAMPLE, they don't invest MONEY in that concept.
Casual programmers, tool writers, hobbyist etc; people who do not make money from the language; can probably take a more casual approach and may have time to go the README.TXT route. Business users DO NOT.
I have been in both worlds. When I first bought PureBasic and ran the examples in the folder provided, 3/4 would not run as they were, they needed changes. As a business buyer, I would have immediately gone elsewhere. As a causal user, hobbyist, code whacker, I had the luxury of time on my side to play and figure it out.
Both of you are correct (And I am an long wided old git)
When I started in PB just on 4 years ago, I was not a novice in programming, but definately a beginner at PB and the idea that a README.TXT file would adequately disseminate CORRECT information about the differences in syntactical changes between versions is manifestly ludicrous, counter-intuitive and unprofessional in its abundant absurdity??
Duz yer love dem long woids?? Didn't look in da dictionhairy for dem oither!
Seriously, while NEW programmers do not need to be exposed to syntactical changes necesssarily, existing coders do need a proper referential guidebook - document - link - example (whataver it is) and not just a "here's the readme, that's good enough for you" approach.
In the business world; when you sell a product; you either have examples in the examples folder that are UP TO DATE 100% with the compiler changes or you don't sell, it's that simple. Business users DO NOT WANT TO SEE PROBLEMS THE FIRST TIME THEY RUN AN EXAMPLE, they don't invest MONEY in that concept.
Casual programmers, tool writers, hobbyist etc; people who do not make money from the language; can probably take a more casual approach and may have time to go the README.TXT route. Business users DO NOT.
I have been in both worlds. When I first bought PureBasic and ran the examples in the folder provided, 3/4 would not run as they were, they needed changes. As a business buyer, I would have immediately gone elsewhere. As a causal user, hobbyist, code whacker, I had the luxury of time on my side to play and figure it out.
Both of you are correct (And I am an long wided old git)
Amateur Radio/VK3HAF, (D-STAR/DMR and more), Arduino, ESP32, Coding, Crochet
( .. also the beast part!)va!n's idea is a good one.
The help file should mention that the command is no longer supported.
Far from being irrelevant to new customers, it would be of great benefit to them as they attempted to avail themselves of the multitude of great examples and tools available (but not always up-to-date) via the forum.
I can understand if it's too much trouble to create. I don't agree it's irrelevant or a bad idea. I also do not agree that the readme is necessarily sufficient. Useful yes, but hardly sufficient, especially for the changes we've seen in PB4.
cheers
The help file should mention that the command is no longer supported.
Far from being irrelevant to new customers, it would be of great benefit to them as they attempted to avail themselves of the multitude of great examples and tools available (but not always up-to-date) via the forum.
I can understand if it's too much trouble to create. I don't agree it's irrelevant or a bad idea. I also do not agree that the readme is necessarily sufficient. Useful yes, but hardly sufficient, especially for the changes we've seen in PB4.
cheers