Accessibility (maybe don't care, but...)

Gansta93 · Post by **Gansta93** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:11 pm

Hello,

The PureBasic IDE, it must be said, is not a very big problem for blind users (I know what I say

).
But there are some things I would like whish cause problem for us.
Before making my ProblemList, I would like to know if Fred is interested by this problem, accessibility on PureBasic IDE.
Fred, if you are, would you like me (and other blind users I know) to give you a liste of things which would make the IDE more accessible?
There is another problem, but not about the IDE: some shortcuts which usualy work in every program (Ctrl+Tab for example) don't work without hack lol. If you want, we should give you, with IDE accessibility problem, a list of small things, it is right, whish are not with Pure but are in other programs.
I know, some people will say "How many blind users use PureBasic?" But I think it is an importent thing because some people I know don't want to buy PureBasic because they have dificulties to use the IDE.

Fred, I'm waiting for your answer.

PS : When I say blind, I speak about people who are not totaly blind too, but problems are more existing for totaly blind users.

Post by **freak** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:46 pm

Please post your list. I am very intrested in this.
It does not matter how many blind users are out there. It should be accessible for everyone.

I will do what i can to fix your problems.

Gansta93 · Post by **Gansta93** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:16 pm

Thank you very much for your interest. I can't give you all problems, but I think it is better because it would be stupid to give you a lot of things so I prefer give you some now, and some latter.
So thes are some:
In preferences window, there is a problem if you just use keyboard to change elements in the tree. We must make a click on the element we want to have options in report. In the last version, changing the element with arrows so without making a click changed the options displayed and it was easyer for us.
Another: in Compiler Options, in Version Informations tab, there is a scroll to have others fields in the window. Scrol is dificult to use for blinds who just use thee kayboard because we must use the mouse to click on the scrollbar and I don't know if there is a shortcut to scroll up or down...
A last: we use a screen reader (voice syntethiser). Whe selecting text, usualy, our screen reader can recognise selected text. But in PureBasic IDE, it can't... but this problem is probably because of our software solution so I am not sure there is a solution.
I hope you can understand my english...

Thx again for your interest.

Post by **freak** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:56 pm

The Tree in the Preferences now reacts to keyboard changes.
Also the ScrollArea in the Compiler Options can be scrolled by keys now.
(This has been added to the ScrollAreaGadget in general, so it should work
everywhere in the IDE and for all Programs created with PB)

About the last one:
Are those screen readers free (or is there a demo) so i could test this?
Can you point me to one? It will make it easier to correct this if i can try myself.

btw, now is a good time for this as we are focusing on bugfixes anyway,
so don't hesitate to post your full list

Num3 · Post by **Num3** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:31 pm

Nice iniciative!

I have several blind friends, and one advice i have too all coders is, don't use custom skins in your apps... They are non-standard gui elements and screen reader engines can't parse them!

Winamp is useless because of that !

Gansta93 · Post by **Gansta93** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:35 pm

Thanks a lot.

About the ScrollAreaGadget : what'll be the shortcut?

About the Screen reader: it is called Jaws or Jaws for Windows. I have an old version and I wasn't able to find the version I use (5.00.855) on the official site and I have the french version. But I'm going to look for an english/german version again.
I'm asking my friends their list of problem, I'll post that when I'll have it as quick as possible.

Thanks again for your patience.

Post by **freak** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:47 pm

For the scrollarea: you simply use tab to give the focus to the scrollarea and
then you can use Up/Down/Left/Right as well as Page Up/Down and Home/End
to scroll.

Trond · Post by **Trond** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:20 pm

Num3 wrote:Nice iniciative!

I have several blind friends, and one advice i have too all coders is, don't use custom skins in your apps... They are non-standard gui elements and screen reader engines can't parse them!

Winamp is useless because of that !

Yes, that's a VERY good to reason to use standard controls. Of course, it also looks ugly and is generally slower than ordinary controls. And keyboard navigation has a tendency to be forgotten.

Gansta93 · Post by **Gansta93** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:48 pm

About JAWS: it seams to be dificult to find my old version. But in www.freedomscientific.com you'll find the last version. But I've never used it.

If you'd speak french, I'd send it to a ftp and you should download it. Note: it is a demo and it is very expencive to have a real version (I've an ilegal key

). That's why I don't have the last version. If someone has an english/german version of Jaws 5... sory for this problem and thanks again for your patience.

Gansta93 · Post by **Gansta93** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:06 pm

Hi,

I have a link, but I am not sure... I don't speak german.

http://www.freedomsci.de/serv01.htm
Now I use Jaws 6.20, so it is easier to find it.
About the other things : thanks a lot for your very good work.

I don't know if u remember, I have posted a bug repport when 3.94B was released about focus on IDE. It is always existing, because it was an accessibility problem (again). If I find the link, could you try something please?
Thanks again for your work and sory for this long time without answer.

Rescator · Post by **Rescator** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:31 am

Is there a site somewhere with programming tips to make accessibility easier?

I'm working on a text adventure engine, and the player or end user interface is hardly graphical at all, but there is a few things.
So if there exist any sites out there with a "check list" of tips, that would be great.

I can guess that using standard api controls gives the highest compatibility,
but there is probably a lot more things to pay attention to!

Gansta93 · Post by **Gansta93** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:08 pm

Hi,

I don't know. Someone said (in french forum) the W3C web site can help, but I don't know how it can. A web site about acdcessibility would be very interesting, I don't understand why FreedomScientific (for example) don't want to do that. Maybe because they want programers to made their programs accessible within using their scripting language.

@Freak if u'r reading this topic: I cannot find my message, so I'm going to tel this "problem". When I open a file (with file>open or in recent file list), my screan reader doesn't read the text, as the editor didn't have the focus. You answered me it was fixed, but OK the editor has the focus (I've asked someone and I trust

), but the problem is still here.

Cheers.

Post by **freak** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:38 pm

I installed tha JAWS 7.0 demo a while ago.
When i open a file with the recent file menu, it starts reading the source. Does that not happen with your version ? (if so, i can try with that download link you provided as well)

It does not read any selection it all though. i am still trying to make that work.

Gansta93 · Post by **Gansta93** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:51 pm

freak wrote:I installed tha JAWS 7.0 demo a while ago.
When i open a file with the recent file menu, it starts reading the source. Does that not happen with your version ? (if so, i can try with that download link you provided as well)

Ah... you'r using the last version, I can't use it, I don't like cracks and to buy a licence is too expencive. My licence should work with Jaws 7, but it won't because Jaws doesn't allow my type of licence (a floppy autorisation "quella") how they call this.
I have checked again, and I can't read the source when I open one with recent files list. Same for open menu.

freak wrote:It does not read any selection it all though. i am still trying to make that work.

Thanks a lot for your helpful work again.

Gansta93 · Post by **Gansta93** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:47 pm

Hello,

This post just to know if there is something new... and to make it unforgoten lol.

In all case, now after Open Menu and Recent Files list, it works fine... thanks !