PureBasic Forums - English

@Psychophanta, I don't know if you have noticed this:

1) Our supplies of cheap, oil-based energy fizzles out at an increasing rate.
2) The human race has adopted an economic system that relies upon exponential growth.

What we need to do is to adopt a one, or no-child policy wordwide, this is pri one.

Next, money should be subjected to linear negative interest rates only, so that they are
always put to work. No exponetntial growth.

Lastly, democrac(z)y is the best way of government, with a few modifications.

utopiomania wrote:Lastly, democrac(z)y is the best way of government, with a few modifications.

Count yourself lucky you're in Norway, the EU seems to have forsaken democracy. The democratically elected governments of Greece and Italy have been swept away and replaced with something that's more agreeable to certain other EU member states. If that's not bad enough the puppet regimes put in their place are now signing away the sovereignty of nations they were never elected to represent, all in the forlorn hope of saving the Euro which is actually the toxin that's crippling their countries in the first place.

As UKIP like to say "You couldn't make it up!"

utopiomania wrote:democrac(z)y is the best way of government, with a few modifications.

Sorry, but you seem to not know what is democracy, please look for the meaning of that, don't leave yourself to be lied.

Profit and competence make grow human behaviours that are bad for the human wellbeing, for the planet, etc.

About new systems to be implemented, there are tons that could be just done now. In fact, as long as I know, the Constitutions books of every countrie say that the common wellbeing of the citicen must be onto any other profit (for example the Bavaria's Constitution book says: art. 151: "Every economic activity serve to the common wellbeing").
But simply it is not carried out, and so then it is not achieved in fact.
Christian_Felber, http://www.christian-felber.at/
is one of the people who are in a project to accomplish every basis norms for a policy to all people to respect any other in the more wide sense. A new planified economy alternative to this systemic lack which bets and lloks for the common wellbeing.
There is a nice explanation in spanish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4tL4eS--XM
Every doc i found about it is not in english, but sure that there are some.
These are in austrian:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1et0ZIUt_iY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax7qAYA8xI4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc25ynqH2W8
What this policy system proposes is very simple, just to carry out the fundaments and basis of the Constitutions book of the 20 century. Nothing new.

Thanks for all the links in this thread Psychophanta, it's nice to see that people are waking up to what's
happening in the world today. I'd like to address some of the ideas that are expressed in Zeitgeist, mainly
the religion-related one. In my opinion, religion is something people mustn't neglect - and of course I don't
mean that they should be fanatics or anything like that - and if they are not religious then again, they should
be free to choose. People have been using religion for ages to explain certain issues that science only comes to
confirm. Many things that science has discovered only come to confirm was has been present in some religious
texts for ages. And it helped many people stay alive (dissidents of regimes) when they were imprisoned for
their views.

The church has become corrupted and it is serving the 1% because it has been infiltrated and it has been
converted to a politic institution - the reverse of what it should have been. The church always had great
power and the elite know this - the next logical step was to start using for their own purposes against the
masses. So what I am saying is that religion shouldn't be ditched (as I believe in personal liberties) but
people shouldn't let themselves be tricked by the so called "servants of God" either.

Speaking about democracy, it isn't flawed IMHO, it's just impossible, at least in the current form. How can
we call it democracy when we are not personally involved in decision making, not even for us. Democracy is
when you can take decisions that affect you, not some other "elected" person - as you cannot be
"bought" to harm yourself - but others can.

Another problem of the so-called democracy is the voting one. Let's say you have 2 parties in a state that
people vote for, one gets 60% of the votes and the other one get 35%. What happens to those 35% of the
people who voted the losing party? They are forced to accept the policy of the majority even if they don't
like it.

Lastly, I've seen over the years that it doesn't really matter what political system you adopt (be it capitalism,
monarchy, etc. - speaking of their economical / social structure). As long as you guard the basic liberties of
a person (via the constitution) and you keep the money creation power in the hands of the elected
government (or the people themselves for that matter), bad things can't happen.

Please disregard Zeitgeist:the movie (1st video document), and understand the other 2: Zeitgeist:Addendum (2nd movie) and Zeitgeist:Moving Forward (3rd Zeitgeist movie).
Just because the first one is not as scientific and serious as the other ones.

Thanks for all those links, input and info.

I find it most interesting.

I would like to experience a world of real freedom, peace and cooperation.
I feel we are reaching a point, when we had enough "qualities" like
fear, fighting, artificial separation, enslavement of many different kinds ...

Just recently, I stumbled upon the following youtube video(s).
A physicist says "reality is not objective":

Tom Campbell Unity North Atlanta 1/4 Better Science Better Living
Tom Campbell Unity North Atlanta 2/4 Better Science Better Living

Marlin wrote:Thanks for all those links, input and info.

I find it most interesting.

I would like to experience a world of real freedom, peace and cooperation.
I feel we are reaching a point, when we had enough "qualities" like
fear, fighting, artificial separation, enslavement of many different kinds ...

Just recently, I stumbled upon the following youtube video(s).
A physicist says "reality is not objective":

Tom Campbell Unity North Atlanta 1/4 Better Science Better Living
Tom Campbell Unity North Atlanta 2/4 Better Science Better Living

Wellcome!
Cooperation in front of competition, that is one of the ideas.
And another one which is harder to understand: "EVERYTHING what improves our lives, generates unemployment".

Please take a look to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2afuTvUzBQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTWwY8Ok5I0
That is repeated all over times in mankind.
Every old and newest philosopher have though about that. There are lots of tales about it, films (Matrix for example), etc. about the same idea, which never is old idea, but there is everywhere and every time until nowadays.

Psychophanta wrote: And another one which is harder to understand: "EVERYTHING what improves our lives, generates unemployment".

Which is not a problem, it's actualy the idea behind automisation to take work away from humans.
The only problem is that we calculate wrong. We get the money from taxes on human work, while the main work isnt done by humans anymore. There is the error, we must take the money from the production of the machines to pay unemployed humans. The unemployment isnt the problem, we just need a system that takes it into account as normal.

There are ideas for such systems.

Just watched an hour and a half of the second video and had to stop it out of boredom. It didn't really tell me anything I didn't know. Corruption was a given, as it's a control thing. Some people on this earth don't feel like their lives are worth anything unless they are controlling and have more then others.

As for the technology, there were some nice ideas. Hell, I thought of that whole maglev technology 21 years ago in 7th grade and I'm sure someone thought of it before me. Same thing with the magnetic motor, which can produce free energy without gas or harmful toxins. But I disagree that technology could save us. It's done nothing but destroy jobs and the economy. Just look at Borders book store for example. No need to buy books when everyone can view them on their electronic devices. Which is a pollution on it's own. Plastics and everything else made by man is not good on the human body at all and is one of the main causes for cancer. But the government will blame cigarettes and so forth on that and tax the hell out of it. Not that I'm saying cigarettes don't cause any health issues.

Oh and what the hell was the whole religious thing. Had nothing to do with documentary at all. Seemed to be more of a personal opinion.

Anyways, it's a nice doc for those who are not informed but there's nothing you can do about it. The government has too much control and wants to charge/tax everything. Even if you're trying to make this world a better place.

J. Baker wrote:It didn't really tell me anything I didn't know. Corruption was a given, as it's a control thing.

That is a very curious fact, Baker:
If you already know about corruption, why do you support it with your votes instead just TO SAY NO to any kind of mafia?

Psychophanta wrote:

J. Baker wrote:It didn't really tell me anything I didn't know. Corruption was a given, as it's a control thing.

That is a very curious fact, Baker:
If you already know about corruption, why do you support it with your votes instead just TO SAY NO to any kind of mafia?

What votes? I don't vote. There's no one worth voting for and I'm not even sure if anyone's vote really matters.

Ok then!
But not to vote is not enough. We must also to spread what they do with our lives, with our money, with our work...

J. Baker wrote:There's no one worth voting for and I'm not even sure if anyone's vote really matters.

Very true, but you guys (unlike the people from other countries) seem to have a good candidate for presidency, Ron Paul. If I was American i'd seriously think about backing him up as his reform ideas could save your economy. Plus he's opposed to wars (upcoming Iran, Syria maybe) and that says lots about him IMHO.

Inf0Byt3 wrote:

J. Baker wrote:There's no one worth voting for and I'm not even sure if anyone's vote really matters.

Very true, but you guys (unlike the people from other countries) seem to have a good candidate for presidency, Ron Paul. If I was American i'd seriously think about backing him up as his reform ideas could save your economy. Plus he's opposed to wars (upcoming Iran, Syria maybe) and that says lots about him IMHO.

Yeah, it sounds nice but the president is nothing more then a face for the government. Sure, maybe there would be a little more leverage with the right person voted in. I'm just not sure how much? Look what the did to Kennedy. There was no reason to kill that man unless there was some hidden agenda. And I don't buy that story that they handed out. Just like I don't believe we ever landed on the moon.

About the moon issue, I couldn't tell. But what seems strange to me is that the Soviet Union was at most 1-2 years behind the USA in terms of aerospatial research. And they didn't manage to get on the moon in all this time. It could be that they didn't have the necessary funds for that, who knows. But it does sound strange for a country to succeed this in that era, considering the technology wasn't that advanced.

The Kennedy story... Hell, they went so far as to claim that a single bullet caused all the wounds:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_bullet_theory wrote: The theory, generally credited to Warren Commission staffer Arlen Specter[1] (later a United States Senator from Pennsylvania), posits that a single bullet, known as "Warren Commission Exhibit 399" (also known as "CE 399"), caused all the wounds to the governor and the non-fatal wounds to the president.

And the bullet was found intact too... Obvious lie is obvious as they say. But you are right. The pit is so deep that we can't even see the light at its end, let alone climb out of it.