PureBasic Forums - English

I agree with you Primoz128, it's surprising that Purebasic doesn't have a higher profile as compared to some other languages - lack of OOP support aside, it's easy to learn and quite powerful, and the forums here are friendly and helpful; something that you might not find in a more mainstream language.

while I wouldn't want to deprive Fred and the Team of a userbase at C++ levels, I'm happy to be among the 5000 (or 8000, or however many we are) users, and couldn't ask for a better community

Kuron wrote:

Primoz128 wrote:Oh and, man why does PB have only about 5000 people using it or at least around that number, while any other in top 10 language has more than 10 K really active ones... i understand it wasn't as good as it is now, i seen that in each version that is a tiny number increase of version name has huge improvements, but it should get more people to use it... or am i wrong ?
(I made a mess... shoot me <.> )

I don't like the 5000 number, and how people never heard of PB.

This is easy, it is for the same reason Game Maker has well less than 500 legitimate users. Just as many people developing games will frown at people using point and click game makers to make games, many people programming will frown at any BASIC language. When it comes to indie BASICs, PureBasic might be the biggest there is.

I do dispute your number of 5000 users of PureBasic.

4329 members registered at the English forums
1091 members registered at the French forums
2892 members registered at the German forums

8312 total members registered at all PB forums

Given that the forums are routinely purged of deadweight, I am fairly confident in the accuracy of those numbers. Also consider many who purchase and use PureBasic will never join any of the forums.

PureBasic is still alive and thriving while many of its competitors have bit the dust or abandoned products and started new ones because they can no longer attract users to their existing products.

I agree with everything, but the Game Maker user count, 500 you joking ? There is more than half a million people using Game Maker very much, and very very soon HTML5 version will arrive and Iphone/Ipad version as well, there is a MAC one also. Game Maker is bigger than anything you have ever saw so don't say a number that you haven't even tried to find on google. Two of official forums, 1 being community and second being forum on official site have both together more than half a million and official site has more than 300 K people, really your statement is very bad.

(i made some sentence mess again :O)

It looks a good community yes <.<, i am going to make a dll if i can convince my dad to buy another program on web <.<, does PB use WinSock ? Else i need to make my own dll ;(, my game is in need of multiplayer - i made game for sole purpose of multiplayer.

The 8000 uses is not so bad at all, i am not sure if it's possible to work professionally.

OOP: Well in Game Maker i never used a single script or made one and my project has about 10 K lines of code... i don't see why OOP is so important, people say it's for lazy people, i kinda agree.
But it does have objects in it, which can be described in c++ for example as big bad ass classes.

Primoz128 wrote:does PB use WinSock ? Else i need to make my own dll ;(, my game is in need of multiplayer - i made game for sole purpose of multiplayer.

Have a look in the manual at the Network library - no need for an external library, PB has it covered... and should you decide to develop on a different OS (Linux or MacOS) the native PB commands make it effortless

Primoz128 wrote:I agree with everything, but the Game Maker user count, 500 you joking ?

I never commented on the user count, I commented on "legitimate users": ie, those using it to actively produce finished products.

Primoz128 wrote:There is more than half a million people using Game Maker very much

You and I both know this isn't true. The average user of GamerMaker is a kid who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground who thinks he is going to use a point and click game making toy to produce a MMORPG game that will equal the latest AAA title. Out of all of the WIPs posted, the majority of those half a million people seem to be using the same warezed version of GameMaker based on the WIPs I download.

Primoz128 wrote:and very very soon HTML5 version will arrive and Iphone/Ipad version as well, there is a MAC one also.

First it is Mac, not MAC. Second the Mac version is buggier than Bamberware. Of course GameMaker completely jumped the shark when Mark sold it. The new owners have literally destroyed the product.

Primoz128 wrote:Game Maker is bigger than anything you have ever saw so don't say a number that you haven't even tried to find on google.

It is GameMaker, not Game Maker. I have been with the product since the very first version Mark released. I am extremely familiar with the product, its capabilities and in the past, I have used it in the classroom for the classes I teach. I have continued to provide support for GameMaker over the years by making sure several of my "addons" work with it. I am very familiar with the product and I routinely purchase games created with GameMaker by the only one of those half a million people you mention who has the skills to turn out marketable products.

I have been programming since '79, trust me, GameMaker is not bigger than anything I have ever seen. In fact, when it comes to the point and click game makers, GameMaker is one of the smallest. The lack of quality products produced with it are a testament to the product and its community's lack of talent.

Primoz128 wrote:Two of official forums, 1 being community and second being forum on official site have both together more than half a million and official site has more than 300 K people, really your statement is very bad.

You are right, my statement was very bad. The actual number of legitimate GameMaker users is closer to 250, but I was feeling generous. This is sad in a way, because in experienced hands GameMaker can be a very capable product. Unfortunately, when you intentionally target your product to inexperienced users, you are not going to attract the quality of users you should be going after.

The 8000 uses is not so bad at all, i am not sure if it's possible to work professionally.

It doesn't matter if it has one user or five million users. If you lack the talent, you will never be able to produce something professional with it. Professionals are using PureBasic every day and making a living from the work they create with it. PureBasic is a very capable language and you are not limited to using the native gaming capabilities if you need something more advanced.

Primoz128 wrote:OOP: Well in Game Maker i never used a single script or made one and my project has about 10 K lines of code...

PureBasic is not a point and click game making toy. You will actually have to learn how to program if you want to use it. It is easy to grasp, well worth learning and very powerful.

Kuron wrote:

Primoz128 wrote:I agree with everything, but the Game Maker user count, 500 you joking ?

I never commented on the user count, I commented on "legitimate users": ie, those using it to actively produce finished products.

Primoz128 wrote:There is more than half a million people using Game Maker very much

You and I both know this isn't true. The average user of GamerMaker is a kid who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground who thinks he is going to use a point and click game making toy to produce a MMORPG game that will equal the latest AAA title. Out of all of the WIPs posted, the majority of those half a million people seem to be using the same warezed version of GameMaker based on the WIPs I download.

Primoz128 wrote:and very very soon HTML5 version will arrive and Iphone/Ipad version as well, there is a MAC one also.

First it is Mac, not MAC. Second the Mac version is buggier than Bamberware. Of course GameMaker completely jumped the shark when Mark sold it. The new owners have literally destroyed the product.

Primoz128 wrote:Game Maker is bigger than anything you have ever saw so don't say a number that you haven't even tried to find on google.

It is GameMaker, not Game Maker. I have been with the product since the very first version Mark released. I am extremely familiar with the product, its capabilities and in the past, I have used it in the classroom for the classes I teach. I have continued to provide support for GameMaker over the years by making sure several of my "addons" work with it. I am very familiar with the product and I routinely purchase games created with GameMaker by the only one of those half a million people you mention who has the skills to turn out marketable products.

I have been programming since '79, trust me, GameMaker is not bigger than anything I have ever seen. In fact, when it comes to the point and click game makers, GameMaker is one of the smallest. The lack of quality products produced with it are a testament to the product and its community's lack of talent.

Primoz128 wrote:Two of official forums, 1 being community and second being forum on official site have both together more than half a million and official site has more than 300 K people, really your statement is very bad.

You are right, my statement was very bad. The actual number of legitimate GameMaker users is closer to 250, but I was feeling generous. This is sad in a way, because in experienced hands GameMaker can be a very capable product. Unfortunately, when you intentionally target your product to inexperienced users, you are not going to attract the quality of users you should be going after.

The 8000 uses is not so bad at all, i am not sure if it's possible to work professionally.

It doesn't matter if it has one user or five million users. If you lack the talent, you will never be able to produce something professional with it. Professionals are using PureBasic every day and making a living from the work they create with it. PureBasic is a very capable language and you are not limited to using the native gaming capabilities if you need something more advanced.

Primoz128 wrote:OOP: Well in Game Maker i never used a single script or made one and my project has about 10 K lines of code...

PureBasic is not a point and click game making toy. You will actually have to learn how to program if you want to use it. It is easy to grasp, well worth learning and very powerful.

Yes i forgot to mention the legitimate number yes... and yes know 95% of GM users are complete noobs im using it for bad 2 years since a whole year was no use, means i used it tiny bit and already in great way of my huge project, and i sometimes go PM on team requests, when they mention payed work, MASSIVE, Super, MMORPG im mad on those words, they never do anything, i saw like 6 pokemon MMORPG requests and i bet in 10 years there still will be none made.

TO: previous quote about network dll... well not for pure Basic itself but for game maker...

And also i know the main reason why Pure Basic is not more used, reason is that C/C++ are very good since ancient times of programing, and Pure Basic appeared more than 25 years later than C and it looks like it got powerful only in these last few years.

Btw so all those libraries i found in PB folder can be imported right ? So this means PB is actually a full time big and very powerful language.

(i hate logical errors i make in my game, currently i am stuck importing another guy's inventory, i gave up on my own, every time i fixed it it was buging the next few minutes or hours.)

(Also i never found a forum in life that would reply so much on a topic that isn't related to what we are disscusing right now lol...)

The Libraries that are included with PureBasic do not need to be "imported". That is done automatically, all you need to do is call the commands those libraries contain. That's how PB works, so in a sense all the commands in those libraries make up PB's "internal commands".

And for users who use Tailbite and compile libraries, we can just put those libraries in a special User Library directory, and it is imported as well, and we can call all the commands in it with no special steps. It is really quite easy and you never have to worry about it.

The only time you have to worry about using external libraries, is when they are DLL files, which you will need to write a wrapper for, using Prototype/CallFunction/CallFunctionFast etc commands. Prototypes are usually recommended now because they are more flexible and can handle more data types.

So does Pure Basic use WinSock or something else ?
Just asking, and if it does, is it like c++ one ? Is it compatible with c++ one ?

on the Windows version, I believe it does use Winsock.

when it comes to networking, you don't have to worry too much about compatibility - it's all just data, regardless of the language controlling the networking. Providing the data is formatted using a predefined protocol (like HTTP for web browsers, FTP for file servers, or even a custom designed format) you should be fine.

as for going off topic: yah, we do that a lot, here - our threads tend to evolve like a real conversation (we make use of the Forum Search when things get too confusing - or at least, we should )

Primoz128 wrote: previous quote about network dll... well not for pure Basic itself but for game maker...

Make sure you read the licensing restrictions on wrapping PB's native libs into a DLL for use with other languages/products.

Kuron wrote:

Primoz128 wrote: previous quote about network dll... well not for pure Basic itself but for game maker...

Make sure you read the licensing restrictions on wrapping PB's native libs into a DLL for use with other languages/products.

Doesn't PB claim to be used for anything ? If they do fine bust me if you can, like it will matter.

Primoz128 wrote:

Kuron wrote:Make sure you read the licensing restrictions on wrapping PB's native libs into a DLL for use with other languages/products.

Doesn't PB claim to be used for anything ? If they do fine bust me if you can, like it will matter.

Uh, oh... we got a live one here.

Primoz128 wrote:Doesn't PB claim to be used for anything ? If they do fine bust me if you can, like it will matter.

This really speaks to your character (or lack thereof).

And to answer his question: no, PureBasic does NOT claim to be used for anything. Read the license again.

Kuron wrote:I do dispute your number of 5000 users of PureBasic.

4329 members registered at the English forums
1091 members registered at the French forums
2892 members registered at the German forums

8312 total members registered at all PB forums

That calculation isn't quite correct, since several people are registered at more than one forum.

Just an example:
If say 20% of the members of the French forum and 20% of the members of the German forum were additionally registered at the Englisch forum, then the calculation would look like this:

4329 members registered at the English forums
1091*0.80= 873 members registered at the French forums only
2892*0.80=2314 members registered at the German forums only

7516 total members registered at all PB forums

Regards, Little John

We don't even need to consult the license, even the FAQ spells it out.

Can I create commercial applications with PureBasic ?

Yes. Once you get PureBasic, you can do any kind of program (freeware, shareware and even commercial applications) without have to pay any extra costs to Fantaisie Software.


Is it allowed to use DLLs made with PureBasic in other projects ?

Generally yes. You can make DLLs including PureBasic commands for your own projects without any restrictions. But it's not allowed to release simple "wrapper" Dlls to include PureBasic commands in other programming languages.

He's just looking to bait people. You can't make a claim based upon the first part, without having seen the second part directly beneath it in the FAQ.. This is the only place I've found any kind of claiming that comes close to "you can do anything".