PureBasic Forums - English

Thanks, Zach, I've sent a missive to Chris on functionality of his web shop as well.

You know, from purely business viewpoint, a merger of PureBasic and ProGUI could be an all-winning combination. I wonder if Fred and Chris realize this. Had them two found common language on this, PB'd have become an unassailable monster of easy and comfortable desktop OS programming. A cross of French fantaisie and British scrutiny, so to say

Now then, and which PB version is fully compatible with ProGUI 1.38?

staringfrog wrote:You know, from purely business viewpoint, a merger of PureBasic and ProGUI could be an all-winning combination.

Nope. PB is cross-platform, and ProGUI is Windows only.

Beside that, the PB team does not show any interest in implementing the simplest cross-platform
enhancements to the GUI part. PB wants to be the simplest of the simplest. In my opinion you could
enhance nearly *any* PB library cross-platform, because all platforms itself, support more than PB does.

Especially Shardik has provided many cross-platform codes, but nothing similar gets implemented into PB.
The most simple things, like getting and setting the cursor/selection position in StringGadget and EditorGadget,
did not find its way into PB in many years. Of course such simple things are provided by all operating systems out there.
Not speaking about advanced dock-able windows, that you find in other GUI toolkits. PB is cross-platform for simplest stuff,
the minimalistic common devisor, but for advanced things you always have to use 3 system APIs directly.

The message is: It is cheap, so do it yourself (DIY), or get another toolkit... like QT.
QT is one of the most advanced toolkits available.
When I asked Digia, it was 2,995 Euros for a commercial license for one platform (Windows or Linux or Mac).
The commercial Multi-OS license for Win + Linux + Mac (incl. all Sources) ) was 4,195 Euro.

Although I think PB could do more, QT corrects the perspective to reality.

At the end I am writing my own cross-platform GUI toolkit. PB is too simplistic, and QT at 4,195 Euro feels little bit overpriced.
For cheap add-ons, it is almost always a problem if the guy depends on the little income of a specific community only.
It is much better if the guy makes 4,000 Euro per month for a living with his day-to-day job, and sells an add-on for $39,95 or so,
to finance a house and save something for his/her retirement pension.

Danilo wrote:At the end I am writing my own cross-platform GUI toolkit. PB is too simplistic...
It is much better if the guy ...sells an add-on for $39,95 or so...

I'd buy that!

I, too, have experienced the frustration of PB's cross-platform limitations. Enough so that had I known then what I know now, I'd have just gone with C and a widget library. C has things I do not like about it, but at least they are things that would be identical on each platform.

The message is:

I beg your pardon. I respect you guys, and I know that you are eager to help newcomers to the language. At the same time, I believe it is this highbrow lowlevel-code attitude that withers PB as a commercial project these days. And that's what repels third-party developers and good technical writers from your fantastic hacking coterie.

They used to say it 20 years ago, 'You'd better learn C'. And that's what you're saying today, in other words and concepts.

I believe PB can satisfy your carnal needs for 'simplicity in simplicity' without being so simple for others. Yes, I need great GUI elements, because I hate design, esp when I want to do pure coding. Yes, I need SetBit and GetBit functions, because they look and act cool for me, despite my ability to xor the damn thing with zeroes or whatever. And yes, I need Windows because it is Windows, warts and all.

I simply asked you what earlier version of PB works seamlessly with this version of ProGUI. Isn't it the right thread for such a question?

staringfrog wrote: I simply asked you what earlier version of PB works seamlessly with this version of ProGUI. Isn't it the right thread for such a question?

Not really "simply", that was just the last line, before you wrote:

staringfrog wrote:
You know, from purely business viewpoint, a merger of PureBasic and ProGUI could be an all-winning combination. I wonder if Fred and Chris realize this. Had them two found common language on this, PB'd have become an unassailable monster of easy and comfortable desktop OS programming. A cross of French fantaisie and British scrutiny, so to say

Just by looking at the characters' count, that was the main part of the post: an opinion.
And Danilo replied with his own. Isn't this the the right forum to exchange opinions ?

Isn't this the the right forum to exchange opinions ?

That's what we are doing, aren't we? Luis, I don't mind others' opinions, either your traditional Italian penchant to pull strangers up on trifles if you don't like what they say and how they say it or Danilo's great discovery of cross-platform nature of PureBasic. Why makes you think I do? It's my thick foreign accent, probably.

And yet, what's the last compatible x86 version? Chris told me today x64 versions of ProGUI are all statically linkable, but not the latest x86 one. And here's my question again — what was the latest PB version that statically links with ProGUI on 32bit Windows? Do you think you can tell me?

Silence. PB's forum usual state these days. Opinions, my foot.

staringfrog wrote:Why do you think I do?

Are you trying to read my mind ? Just read my post

luis wrote:

staringfrog wrote:Why do you think I do?

Are you trying to read my mind ? Just read my post

I'd better edit mine, in a bit more opinionated way

Your remark about the fact the PB community isn't answering you has touched me deeply so I'll give you your answer: no.

And now let's enjoy the silence you are talking about.

luis wrote:Your remark about the fact the PB community isn't answering you has touched me deeply so I'll give you your answer: no.

And now let's enjoy the silence you are talking about.

Do as you please. If you enjoy silence, PB forum was a great place for you, indeed, before I came here

Hey Luis, honestly, I've been an avid PB forum reader for the last 2 years, and I know you're a great contributor to the community, most kind helper to purebasic waifs and strays and all. Don't take it close to your heart, please. You can't know all the answers

Now then, today's top question of the thread again — what's the latest version of PB that links statically with ProGUI 1.38 on x86 machines? But don't say I should buy one, only to figure it out meself It's not just a 'point of curiosity', as Jack Nicholson put it once. My only ambition is to finish one particular project with my licensed copy of PB (and to forget this god-blessed language for good and all), and I need to know if I can downgrade my PB compiler without any risk to this project.

Pardon!

Danilo wrote:Pardon!

Why? You were just sharing what you think, and not pulling me up on what I was saying to others. But if you really want to be pardoned, you surely are

staringfrog wrote:And yet, what's the last compatible x86 version? Chris told me today x64 versions of ProGUI are all statically linkable, but not the latest x86 one. And here's my question again — what was the latest PB version that statically links with ProGUI on 32bit Windows? Do you think you can tell me?

Silence. PB's forum usual state these days. Opinions, my foot.

@staringfrong: Chris is the one who should be answering your questions, this is his announcement thread. Since you already talked to him today why don't you see if he knows?

Demivec wrote:

staringfrog wrote:And yet, what's the last compatible x86 version? Chris told me today x64 versions of ProGUI are all statically linkable, but not the latest x86 one. And here's my question again — what was the latest PB version that statically links with ProGUI on 32bit Windows? Do you think you can tell me?

Silence. PB's forum usual state these days. Opinions, my foot.

@staringfrong: Chris is the one who should be answering your questions, this is his announcement thread. Since you already talked to him today why don't you see if he knows?

Well, I was so happy to get a letter from the mysterious topic starter who appears in his most lucrative PB forum thread once in a blue moon that I was naturally sort of shy to ask him back again. What he'd told me, word-for-word copy-paste, was this:

"Yes ProGUI is still available for sale however I've not had the time to actively develop it due to the contract work I'm currently undertaking.
The ProGUI 64bit userlibrary will statically link without problems with the latest PB however the 32bit version of the userlib won't compile into a userlib due to issues with Tailbite. The DLL version is compatible with all PB releases though. If you do decide to purchase a license, I won't be able to generate you a key until this evening as I'm currently at work so don't worry if you don't receive your key straight away. "

As you see, Chris doesn't mention any particular 32bit PB version that links statically with his gem of a GUI, and the only reason for this, I believe, is that he doesn't know or remember it hisself quite well. That's why I'm asking away around here.

P.S. If you care to re-read the last 10 pages or so, you'll see that the only thing people were discussing in this thread was how they could modify the ProGUI source. I naturally assumed they still remember that turning point of the Great Pure Basic Way on which they'd started doing this. Amnesia Magna Totaque?

staringfrog wrote:Now then, today's top question of the thread again — what's the latest version of PB that links statically with ProGUI 1.38 on x86 machines?

PB 5.00 works fine for me, as also mentioned by Chris here: http://www.purebasic.fr/english/viewtop ... 79#p395879
With PB 5.10 and later you just can use the dll for x86, which works also fine here.