Fred:Time to switch to OpenGL as the native GFX source of PB

Everything else that doesn't fall into one of the other PB categories.
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traumatic
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Post by traumatic »

dmoc wrote:Won't update driver - well what do you expect!?
traumatic wrote: Ah and yes, please don't start telling me I should update drivers or
something ;)
...meaning that I do know how to configure PCs and do have the latest drivers...
dmoc wrote: I have used ogl for 2D as well and as far as optimising I got significant performance gain from moving to ogl.
Please share your knowledge and show me (and the rest of the world)
some good ways to do fast per-pixel manipulation in OpenGL. OpenGL
was never meant to be used in a 2D environment and that's exactly what
you get performance wise.
dmoc wrote:And to compare non-gfx stuff is just dumb.
Ok, you're calling me dumb, thefool's calling me blind - I can live with that ;)
dmoc wrote:And finally, just to state the bleedin' obvious, there is no dx on either Linux or OS X (perish the thought!).
DX is the standard API on windows. OpenGL being available on all sytems
doesn't change that.
dmoc wrote:PS: If ogl support in PB is dropped then I'd drop PB
Who said anything about dropping OpenGL support?



Recapitulating:
traumatic wrote: Well, this is going to be a leisured discussion...
:)
Good programmers don't comment their code. It was hard to write, should be hard to read.
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dmoc
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Post by dmoc »

Ok, you're calling me dumb, thefool's calling me blind - I can live with that
Glad you got your sense of humour with you :P Hard of hearing by any chance :wink:

Packing to go away for the weekend but I will respond next week
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traumatic
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Post by traumatic »

dmoc wrote:Hard of hearing by any chance :wink:
Huh? What? :P
Good programmers don't comment their code. It was hard to write, should be hard to read.
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DarkDragon
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Post by DarkDragon »

thefool wrote:
traumatic wrote:Well, this is going to be a leisured discussion...

I've never seen any OpenGL application run faster than a DX one
on any of my GFX-cards (Ti4200, Radeon 9600, TNT and TNT2).
I programmed both APIs and even though I tried hard to optimise
on both sides, performance was never on par.
open your eyes :shock:
I've never seen a OpenGL application running faster than a DX one, too, but I have seen Bugfull DX DepthTests(But as I think you have to program them yourself).

[EDIT]
But the OpenGL performance is still good.
bye,
Daniel
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Post by fsw »

dmoc wrote: PPS: What happened to Ogre lib (ogl version?)
[joking]
OGRE will be dropped in favor of IRRLICHT...
[/joking]

[looking to Traumatic]
:D
[/looking to Traumatic]
dmoc wrote: PP(wtf)S: Someone soon will mention SDL (there, I did it)
SDL is somewhat easy to work with but it's slower than DX...

Bottom Line:
The best is to use what is delivered by the OS manufacturer.
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Brice Manuel

Post by Brice Manuel »

I have used ogl for 2D as well and as far as optimising I got significant performance gain from moving to ogl.
Odd considering OGL (like DX8 & DX9) is not capable of 2D. It is only capable of "emulated 2D". I could care less about 3D, D3D and OGL, but please leave my DirectDraw alone. PB has true 2D and needs to keep it. :wink:
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thefool
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Post by thefool »

open your eyes too, dark dragon. me: i have. its JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVENT PLAYED MODERN GAMES as half life 2 and doom3.
you only play old time games as tribes 2 try a newer 3d game :)


@traumatic: i didnt call you blind i just said that you where too stupid to even open your eyes.

(jk :) no offence! that before was a joke as well. i just say i have good experiences with opengl!)


*cough* unreal tournament, soldier of fortune 2, tons of other games *cough* (older games, but examples where opengl outperformances dx)
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Num3
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Post by Num3 »

My 2 cents...

DirectX is much mature than GL...

GL was not built to be a game layer, it was build for professional render systems with hardware GL cards (a true GL card costs a bundle and only supports GL).

The DX9 api will replace the standard GUI api (it already has built in support for it) so sooner or later MS will drop all those sparse API's in favor of a single one (DX 10!?) which is a very smart move.

Even linux is moving into DX with WineX ....

Guys just take advantage of what you have now with PB...

Fred is our captain, and just trust him...

Oh! Captain, my Captain....
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Dare2
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Post by Dare2 »

Num3 wrote:Oh! Captain, my Captain....
:D
@}--`--,-- A rose by any other name ..
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Post by dracflamloc »

As far as I recall, Linux doesn not have OpengL working in any way with pb...
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Post by DarkDragon »

thefool wrote:open your eyes too, dark dragon. me: i have. its JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVENT PLAYED MODERN GAMES as half life 2 and doom3.
you only play old time games as tribes 2 try a newer 3d game :)
HL 2 and Dooom3 will never work on my computers (having just a VIA S3G Unichrome IGP and a nVidia GeForce 2 Ti) ;) and I have no money for a newer Graphicscard. So well, let's make PB GeForce 7 compatible and noone with a less graphics card can see anything. If you use OpenGL for games like HL2 everything has to be optimized, no guy will ever work like a 70 Programmers group. I hate games like HL2 or Dooom, because there are no JetPacks, no Planes, no Tanks, no Multiplayer without payment. And I am just 17 years old, I don't want to buy games which are not for my age. Well, TRIBES 2 is also a OpenGL game, and it works very very very well here for its graphics features, even with multiplayer through the internet with 30 players or more in one server. I am sure HL2 and Dooom are as fast as TRIBES 2, maybe a bit slower, but they will not work with a that good graphic. You need to use extensions of OpenGL if you want to program those graphics you see on images in the internet and in magazines. And as one guy in developing you'll loose the overview with all those extensions, functions, .... As HL2 and Dooom3 is programmed by companies with more than 70 persons you'll have to see all in the right relation.
dracflamloc wrote:As far as I recall, Linux doesn not have OpengL working in any way with pb...
That is not correct, I implemented the libs into PB on linux!

[EDIT]
HERE IS THE LINK TO DOWNLOAD OPENGL COMPATIBILITIES FOR LINUX-PB: http://www.bradan.net/downloads/pb_linux_gl.zip

But there are still no double commands, you can fake that if you know how, as I think.
bye,
Daniel
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Post by Psychophanta »

traumatic wrote:I've never seen any OpenGL application run faster than a DX one on any of my GFX-cards (Ti4200, Radeon 9600, TNT and TNT2).
Yes. Me and some other known people have made some tips made SAME with DX and OGL, and the result is DX is faster.
Since birth of functional DX i've said windows graphics will not be easely defeated by linux or others.
However, if OGL or other tech would be sold as much as Microsoft products, surely some of those would be faster now.
BTW: DX was purchased by M$, if i've not mistaken.
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com

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SoulReaper
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Post by SoulReaper »

Hello :)

I just want to say that i am impressed with pure basic but find that it lacks in the 3d department - ogre is ok but when will it be updated...

will ogre be dropped ?

last thing i heard is that fred is going to update ogre to v1.0 later...

or will it change to IRRLICHT

for me open gl and directX are complex although i agree directX is the more powerful.

I am sure there are a lot of people wondering on this subject including me...

me wondering :roll: :)
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traumatic
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Post by traumatic »

SoulReaper wrote:I am sure there are a lot of people wondering on this subject including me...
Fred - Wed Aug 10, 2005 00:14 wrote: I tried to compile a new version of the dll using the 1.0.3 release without success there is a lot of things to change.
viewtopic.php?t=8808
Good programmers don't comment their code. It was hard to write, should be hard to read.
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SoulReaper
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Post by SoulReaper »

thankyou traumatic for the update :)

nice to know it will get there :shock: :D
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