Purebasic Updates.

[G-PB]

Hey. Just a few quick questions. I've known about purebasic for some time now, and finally decided to go ahead and purchase it. I am really excited to learn this language and start programming. Which leads me to question 1.

I know that this has been asked before but I was wondering is there any serious 'non hobby' tutorial that will be released, as in official? I've visited a few links posted here, but everything seems to boil down to a very very basic broad 'programming' overview (not purebasic specific), and 'fool around with the sample code' ideology. Now I agree that hands on work is how you learn best, but to start, I think you need good direction. That's what tutorials are for, right?

My second question came about when I was looking at other basic compilers. I came across a comment in the iBasic forum about how with each new purebasic update 'conflicts' in code arise. For example, a program created in purebasic 3.91 might need to be tweaked to work in 3.92. I just wanted to know if that is true, and how much of a burden is it to go through and redebug your software.. and maybe more important, for a newbie, would it be difficult to pinpoint what needs to be changed in your code, and why. Adding new features/commands to purebasic is one thing. Changing the way existing commands work is another.. and scares me a little.

g-

[DoubleDutch]

it shouldn't scare you!

Most of the changes made have little impact on previous programs. The changes are for the better.

-Anthony

[thefool]

also its not often. The 4.0 will of course need some changes, but until now i think i have only seen once where some changes were needed, and it was a very small change only.

[Paul]

it shouldn't scare you!

Most of the changes made have little impact on previous programs. The changes are for the better.

-Anthony

Of course you are speaking for yourself.
For those of us who develop and program commercial apps, these constant breaks in code are a real pain in the a$$

It seems that many users say simply stick with older versions of the compiler...
Problem 1: This means you would have to have many versions sitting around and keep track of which compiler was uses on what project.
Problem 2: In order to fix bugs due to bugs in the compiler (or libraries) you have no choice but to compile with the latest version, so this means keeping old versions around is useless.

So, to keep commercial apps (or any other pieces of code for that matter) up to date and working, you must keep up to date with the latest PB releases quite often do a fair amount of fixing when it comes time to recompile.



ps. Don't get me wrong, I am quite aware that breaking syntax is sometimes necesary for progress

[Henrik]

And keep in mind:
Paul is a proff. developer making commercial apps, temporary caught between status quo and a better compiler.
And keep in mind:
You read this on the iBasic forum, it will happen to iBasic too, sooner or later, iBasic is still young.
Remember, we are getting close to v 4.0 now, changes have to be made for the bigger goal.

And as Paul said

ps. Don't get me wrong, I am quite aware that breaking syntax is sometimes necesary for progress

Best Regrads
Henrik

[DoubleDutch]

I too am a professional developer....
Currently coding various projects, two of which are coded using PureBasic (in order to test its viability for pro-apps, pleasantly suprised so far).

The first is virtually ready for release, see the beta website: http://www.spymon.com

In any case, the only code change that I remember needing to do was some re-coding of the memory allocation stuff. It was just at the init & exit of the code and not much work at that.

Anything else break old syntax apart from the memory commands?

[Inner]

Depends on the way you code alot too, if you code in a modular way, and reuse code in functions without repeating yourself, it's just a quick trip to the isolated function(s) and a slight modification, if you repetitively use a command and that commands syntax changes for example, then you would end up with a lot of work.

[blueznl]

most of the changes i have tun into were rather minimal, even when i did not always agree with them

[PB]

> a program created in purebasic 3.91 might need to be tweaked to work
> in 3.92. I just wanted to know if that is true

Sometimes true. It's like when an app that worked in Win 98 doesn't work
under Win XP and you need a patch. It's no big deal, and the changes are
always for the better.

> Changing the way existing commands work is another.. and scares me
> a little

Usually the changes benefit your app greatly. Examples: you don't need
as many parameters anymore, such as with AllocateMemory, which used
to require 3 but now needs only 1. Other commands add more functionality
to a command -- such as RunProgram which started off fairly simple but
can now do great stuff like run-and-wait-for-the-other-app-to-exit, etc.

It's just progress. It's not scary at all, really. Most of the times you just
do a search for the command and quickly tweak it by hand to the new
format. Not hard, and benefits far outweigh the minor inconvenience.

Maybe you're expecting that the changed commands will require a big
relearning of them? That's not the case, if that's what you're thinking.
And the changes don't occur THAT often either, so don't sweat it.

[Forest Dreams]

I came across a comment in the iBasic forum about how with each new purebasic update 'conflicts' in code arise.

That was probably me. I made a comment something to that effect on the IB forums.

It can be a bit frustrating when you are first diving into the PB language for serious use and a new update comes along that knackers the code a bit. Suddenly, code no longer worked, some example code included with PB didn't work, examples in the manual were incorrect, the GUI editor had a couple of issues, and there were issues with existing code & libraries at Pure Area.net. Like I said, this can be daunting, when you are tying to learn the specifics of PB and some changes occur that require code changes.

That said, I am using PB. I like the plans for the future of PB, I like the cross-platform capabilities, and I like the feature-set and the overall ease of use. PB has NOT been made overly complex like other languages. And bugs are actually fixed in PB land, and you do not have to code around a lot of issues in PB, as you do with other languages.

[Fred]

That's true than we prefer to break a bad designed stuff to always have a cleaner 'future' language than keeping all the old stuffs working (the famous compatibility layer) and ends with several ways to do the same things. Please notes than all PureBasic upgrades are free, which means than everybody can upgrade, so gets the new compiler to compile newer code with doesn't work anymore with older version. That's not the case of other products which must preserve a backward compatibility. That said, it's always very fast to update its code.

[GedB]

I think another important point is that the very liberal PB license allows multiple installations of the product.

This means that you can keep two separate instances of Purebasic at two different versions.

[G-PB]

I guess my main concern was that with new releases my code would need to be updated as well, and being new to programming I guess I wouldn't be sure what part needs to be changed/fixed and why....
I guess I should start programming first before I worry though!

....and hopefully the language is at a stage now in development where any changes should be extrememly minor.

Thanks for the replies!

g-

[PB]

> I guess I wouldn't be sure what part needs to be changed/fixed and why

You'll get an error message for the changed command (not just a generic
error message that wouldn't explain squat) when trying to run the app, so
then it's just a simple matter of looking at the docs for that command to see
how it's changed, and then just modifying your code to suit. Easy!

[Jimbo_H]

Hey. Just a few quick questions. I've known about purebasic for some time now, and finally decided to go ahead and purchase it. I am really excited to learn this language and start programming. Which leads me to question 1.

I know that this has been asked before but I was wondering is there any serious 'non hobby' tutorial that will be released, as in official? I've visited a few links posted here, but everything seems to boil down to a very very basic broad 'programming' overview (not purebasic specific), and 'fool around with the sample code' ideology. Now I agree that hands on work is how you learn best, but to start, I think you need good direction. That's what tutorials are for, right?
g-

Hi,

I'm going to ignore your second question as it's been well covered.

As for your first question....
I've had PB for a long time now. I started off all enthusiastic and spent many hours trying to get my head around it. Eventually I became so frustrated I simply uninstalled PB and left it alone for several months or more. The main reason was because fooling with others code (as everyone suggests the beginners do) is a two edged sword **for a beginner**. On one hand it's great because someone else has done all the hard work and you can simply pick it apart and play with it. However, and this is the crucial bit...if the code is not written very well or isn't commented fully, it can lead to more confusion and frustration than you started with. That's always been a failing of PB for me and I think it must put some people off buying it. I've said before that the biggest weakness is the lack of beginner friendly documentation. It's nice to have other websites and the forum to refer to, but for someone completely new, it's just too much like hard work to find what you need sometimes. That's not laziness, it's just that learning to program is very difficult and to add to that difficulty the chore of having to search through dozens of forum postings to find one simple snippet of beginner friendly code is too much to ask. The complete novice needs to have easy, quick access to a gentle learning curve and simple tutorials for all the different aspects of the language. Unfortunately, when I first bought PB (and even now, to an extent), there was/is no such thing.

But, I did eventually come back to PB and spent time in the code archive on the wonderful purearea site, spent more time looking through the PB native help file and these amazing forums. I started off very modestly messing with a simple window, a couple of gadgets and nothing else. Once I'd sussed the syntax and parameters of these, I then began trying to get the gadgets to interact with each other. Then I added another gadget and it went on from there, very, very slowly.

Over the past few weeks and months, I've gotten to the stage where things really have begun to click into place. It's strange how one day you can be sat scratching your head wondering how the heck something very simple works, then all of a sudden you have a eureeka moment and you understand.

I do agree with you about the official tutorial though. It's something I feel is desperately needed for PB. It's not always enough to be told how to do something in PB, but also the question of "why" is important and frequently overlooked.

I really love PB and think it's well worth the money and the time investment. If you are more patient than I, and can put up with having to dig a little to find guidance, then you'll be fine. That's my 2p worth anyway

All the best,
Jim