Looks like Bush won ...

GedB · Post by **GedB** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:15 pm

and yes! he have nuclear, chemical, and every weapon of mass destruction you can imagine...

It's okay for UK and US to have such weapons because we know that they are bound by international law. It is safe because we can rest assured that they would never use these weapons against another nation without a clear mandate from the international community.

wcardoso · Post by **wcardoso** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:36 pm

Hey, Ged, what do you say about the "clear mandate from the international community". Do you remember when the "international community" sed NO to your INVASION ?

blueznl · Post by **blueznl** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:14 am

mmmm.... although political discussions always end in flame wars, i think all countries that are now developping *smaller* nuclear bombs should reconsider what they are doing...

there's only one single reason to develop a smaller nuclear bomb... to use it...

J. Baker · Post by **J. Baker** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:01 am

I find it weird to see other countries hate americans, when all America is is just bunch of foreigners. Maybe if we could see that, the world would be a better place. It seems ignorant to me that as adults we can't communicate without killing to solve an issue.

blueznl · Post by **blueznl** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:19 am

oh well, i guess everyone agrees that politics brings us no go(o)d

...

let's all get back to programming!

Psychophanta · Post by **Psychophanta** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:30 am

blueznl wrote:there's only one single reason to develop a smaller nuclear bomb... to use it...

There is another reason: now, nuclear weapons are used by countries to dissuade. Like monkeys.

GedB · Post by **GedB** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:06 am

wcardoso,

You're sarcasm detector needs fine tuning.

GedB · Post by **GedB** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:19 am

J Baker,

I think that Americans are very much liked around the world, as people. It is the actions of the nation that is the problem.

I think one major problem is that for a nation that takes a leading role on the world stage, America is incredibly insular.

I visited the states for the first time this summer, and the thing that shocked me is that there was no international news.

I watched CNN for over an hour hoping to get an idea of what was going on back home, but apart from a brief mention of Iraq there was no international news at all. For a BBC news addict like myself, this was shocking.

I wouldn't have minded if there was so much going on at home they just couldn't squeeze in international stuff, but these people were desperately filling air.

We all learn at a young age that if we want to be liked by people, the first thing to do is take an interest in others.

Psychophanta · Post by **Psychophanta** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:28 am

Yes, i think it's because US is terribly pride, and this is the biggest of the smallnesses.
If US was great it would be humild (which does not implicate to hide the greatness and power) instead of pride.

freedimension · Post by **freedimension** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:57 am

Yes, that's a good point Psychophanta.

But we here in Europe are also to blame for that. In the past decades we always looked up to the great brother USA and admired them. Plus the leaders of the world are playing the brownnose game the whole time with the white house. If you were treated like that since birth one can be sure you would also act like that in short time (Heisenberg uncertainty relation

).
We too have to stop that slimy behaviour of our own if we want to change anything, that's the point. If we only could apprehend, that Europe has twice the population than the US, less deficit, less unemployment, more social and medical security, we would see that we shouldn't really depend on the USA. That would somehow re-establish the balance of power that lacks since the fall of the USSR. In this case though it has to be as equal friends that can have different opinions (without the fear to be called the "old Europe", or the fear of the renaming of "french fries"

) and not as enemies.
only my 2ct

Psychophanta · Post by **Psychophanta** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:38 pm

freedimension wrote:If you were treated like that since birth one can be sure you would also act like that in short time (Heisenberg uncertainty relation ).
We too have to stop that slimy behaviour of our own if we want to change anything, that's the point.

I know and understand the psychological phenomenon you talk about. But this phenomenon should happen only on childs, not on adults. Which means US was, is, and will be like a child with pistols.

fsw · Post by **fsw** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:50 pm

GedB wrote: I visited the states for the first time this summer, and the thing that shocked me is that there was no international news.

I watched CNN for over an hour hoping to get an idea of what was going on back home, but apart from a brief mention of Iraq there was no international news at all. For a BBC news addict like myself, this was shocking.

I wouldn't have minded if there was so much going on at home they just couldn't squeeze in international stuff, but these people were desperately filling air.

We all learn at a young age that if we want to be liked by people, the first thing to do is take an interest in others.

That's sad but true.

I lived a long time in europe and because I miss 'WORLD INFORMATION' I watch 'DAS HEUTE JOURNAL' (german news...) on the Internet.
You can see the whole 20 minutes on the net FOR FREE

Also the BBC webpage is a good resource on whats going on in the world.

For 'FORMULA ONE' information I go to ' www.formula1.com ' or ' sport.rtl.de ' or 'www.itv-f1.com' or ' f1.racing-live.com '.

Maybe it's because politics & media are run by $$$ ( by peoples with a lot of it - the only thing they care about are stocks...) that the media here is so ... let's say LOCAL 8O

As defense I should say that most americans are LOCAL pleople

If you ask around: "Who was outside of their own STATE or was at the Grand Canyon, Saguaro National Park, Arches National Park, Zions National Park, Yellowstone National Park, or has seen the gigantic Redwoods or another wonderful NATURE Monument" you get the answer: " Yes I have to go there and see these wonderful places, but ..."
And if they have been outside the US, it was during their military time.

BTW: Before somebody asks, I was already in:
Germany, Switzerland, France, Belgium, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Denmark, Spain, Italy, Croatia, Bosnia Herzegovina, Austria, Slovenia, San Marino, Greece, United Kindom, Liechtenstein...
and this for vacation

Karbon · Post by **Karbon** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:28 pm

It is time to take you kids to America 101.

The main reason that no one in Europe (or most of the rest of the world) doesn't understand America is because there is nothing like it in the world. The USA is unique in many aspects.

A few points to make.

Stop to think for a minute that the US, Geographically speaking, is MUCH larger than any single European country, especially those in eastern Europe. Each individual state (province to put it in more international terms) over here has it's own government and can be thought of as a mini country in itself. There are many people that never travel outside their own state, much less the country! Also keep in mind that many states over here are larger than your entire country! We don't need to go outside the country to meet different people and experience different culture - we have that here! Not to mention that for the vast majority of Americans traveling outside the country is prohibitively expensive - you guys can just drive down the road! The distance from London to Paris is 213 miles - that will BARELY get me to the next larger city in Kentucky!

No international news - This REALLY depends on where you are in the US.
The news here is broken down into smaller programs - we have no "BBC" equivilent as one news organization just couldn't report on everything everyone was interested in. There is local news which is generally 30-60 minutes in length and only covers the very broad strokes internationally and concentrates on local and regional happenings. Then you have the big networks that cover the large cities and some international news. Then you have things like CNN, which are almost all international. Personally, I use Google to read the news - I get headlines from all over the world and pick the stories that interest me. As far as your comments about CNN goes - I don't know what CNN you were watching but I watched about 30 minutes of it at lunch and didn't see a single story on DOMESTIC news! It was all about Iraq, the recent terrorist attacks on the Dutch, Arafat's coma, etc.

Obviously I do take great pride in my country and I think it is the best country on Earth. I don't always agree with the government here, in fact I rarely do, but you Europeans really need to come on over and live here a while before you start making judgements on "American culture". "American culture" is something people outside the US made up. That is like me saying "European culture" - there is no such thing! America is too big and full of too many different people to have one single culture (as is Europe). I've lived all over this great country of mine and underwent total culture shock each time I moved to a different region.

You talk about we Americans needing to broading our horizons, but I think it is the other way around in most cases. I doubt very much your experience with American and it's people from your comments. Short visits don't expose you to culture!

The door is always open over here. Come see for yourself.

Psychophanta · Post by **Psychophanta** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:09 pm

Bah, bah, the best of US is California. The best of a country is the weather.

I will not die before visit California, south and north.

wcardoso · Post by **wcardoso** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:38 pm

Ok, Karbon; I agree with you about the american people. The majority are great persons (I have some friend there); but the attitude about other countries is another thing.
The point here is if you admit a lot of ignorance about the "rest" of the world because you are a special kind of world with long distances between different states and too busy with your locals problems to look to outside; what's reason have you to distribute "justice" all over the world ?.
All we have here our owns problems to suffer the "American interpretation of the reallity" or the "American vision of the world"; and your self-imposed right to "modify" it.
I think you need to travelling a lot more and know how is the life in others countries BEFORE to decide what to do.
You think you liberate Iraq, but the international reports from there shows a totally different situation.
Are you ignorants of the reallity or don't care you ?
Please stop this insanity, wake up and look outside USA; and please don't say us anymore you are the savers of the world; all we know the truth.