Looks like Bush won ...

[J. Baker]

I never thought these events wouldn't happen in our life time either. Then I came across a man named Jack Van Impe about 7 years ago. I've always been skeptic about anything that had told anything about the future. But listening to Jack Van Impe explain the writings of the Revelation of Christ (which was hard for me the first time I read it) and begining to understand it has left me not to fear these times as much. The writings are not easy to understand unless you have more knowledge on what some of the writings represent. Like the 10 horns on the beast are for the 10 nations and so forth. Anyway, here's a couple links if anyone is interested.

HomePage
http://www.jvim.com/

Video
http://www.thegospel.org/Pages/JVIM.asp

[freedimension]

Good point freedimension, i happen to be watching news and seen 911 happen live when it happened. I'll never forget it. To americans this is the most tragic thing ever to happen. To third world countries this happens every day, take Suddan for instance.

And IRAQ! That is exactly what we are trying to do there - get the bad people out! Yes innocents die, yes it is horrible, yes I wish it were avoidable. WE are fighting for THEIR freedom! If anyone thinks we are making money on this deal I'd love to point to the BILLIONS of dollars and thousands of American lives we've already put up..

Yes, I believe you. The majority of the soldiers that are in Iraq are trying to help the Iraqi people (at least that's the reason they are given). And only the minority(?) is torturing and hating the iraqi people, driven into that same blind hatred that drives the terrorists on the other side.
And what for? For stability? Compare the situation in the region now and before 2003 and then we can talk again. Bushs "holy" war on terrorism and the war on iraq (two different things that are too often confused [intentional!?]) have led the region into a state of total chaos and uncertainty. Bin Laden doesn't need to recruit his fighters anymore, this war does this already for him - more than perfectly. Well done! This politics really deserves standing ovations and a reelection. Wooohooo, get the popcorn and a bud.

Well, now let's talk about the cash. Do you really think, the war is fought for human rights? Do you really think that? Well, you're right in that the american people is paying a high price for this war, but the people that are behind all this don't even CARE about the american people nor about the iraqi or any other people on this planet but only about their own sake, their own profit. What do you think is all the money flowing to? To the iraqis? Who at the moment is gaining the most money with the iraq war? I can tell you, it's the weapons industry (and hey, bush knows some of them quite well, even before he became president), the oil industry (and hey, bush knows some of them quite well, even before he became president, better, he was one) and the construction industry (not to mention that the Bin Ladens in Saudi Arabia have a large construction company and that the Bush family knows them and others quite well).
This all appears to be a mere saleout of arms to freshen up the stocks with nice side effects in the briefcases of the mightiest in the US.

While all this is happening the gap between rich and poor in the US is getting wider and wider every day. Already 1% of the population owns 90% of the $ (I hope I remember the figures right, will check it later). What about the rest you ask? They are nothing but workbees and antssoldiers, willing to submissively act their role in this worldwide tragedy.

The bush administration hollowed out the americans very own constitution, this highly regarded peace of paper that once stood for things like human rights (well, at least for WASPs) and called this hollowing patriot act. As if this could serve in the fight of terrorism - the only thing it is good for is to supress and control the american people even more, and guess what, it works. As you quite well pointed out in a previous post I'm from germany, and I'm very, very glad it came as it came in 45, believe me. We had our lesson regarding patriotism and nationalism and when I read about all the things that the bush administration is doing I hear more than one alarm bell ringing inside my head. Be cautious with that guy before it's too late. At present Bush is far more dangerous in what he is doing than any other leader in the world, mark my words. And now, in the second term he can do even worse because he doesn't have to worry about his reelection.

BTW: Ever read the Wolfowitz papers where he is stating that the US has to be able to fight in "multiple theatres of war" to maintain the leading role in the world and that this has to be tested out before long? I'm not sure, but I think it too made some allusions as to the axis of evil, mostly iraq and that it would perhaps be necessary to counteract the UNO to fullfill that task. FYI, that paper existed long before 9/11.

I already said it but it can't be said too often: you can't enforce democracy with arms, it failed in vietnam, korea, cambodscha etc. and it will fail in the middle east too. You can't fight terrorism, terrorism is a phantom, a mere symptom of more evil roots. The only way to get rid of terrorism would be to get rid of the causes, a good start to do so would be a just and unbiased politics in the middle east and a much higher budget on foreign aid than at the moment. Selling heavy arms, tanks and helicopters to israel and the lighter weapons to palestina really doesn't count.
But as I also said above, the actual government never intended to save the world and to export democracy, that's too unprofitable in short terms. They are quite happy with the status quo, this way their own people can be better controlled and they can be diverted from all the things that went wrong in their own country, like for example the catastrophical deficit the US has since Bush won the oval office in 2k. TERROR TERROR TERROR the american people is so full of fear (of what excactly?), that they perceive the world in a very distorted way. The american history is full of failures, take the McCarthy Era, the native american issue, slavery and segregation, the cold war, I can't understand why they won't ever learn. Do the world and your children a favor: Get real!


EDIT: Figures about the wealth gap in the USA: http://www.inequality.org/facts.html

[Inner]

freedimension : if only it where that simple, don't you think it would have been done, in regards to the middle east?, you said it yourself you cannot fight terrorism with bullets, planes, tanks & general warfare, but you can't sit idle either (because that means your weak), this is the delimer Bush faces, because he is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't, if you'd just stop for just a moment, and add into those wonderful forumulions of yours this one simplistic ideal, you just might get a slight grasp of how hard Bush's job really is, Muslems (all of them to some degree) believe that _everyone_ including you sitting there in your comfortable seat, should be 'a muslem' as well, you too should follow al'a! but there not like Christians, they are willing to kill you and themselfs to get to that end, and to a certain degree I agree with them we do need some sort of consequence even Christians, too long has the Christian sat idly by, while people kill the unborn, allow unspeakable acts of depravity and inhumanity to go unspoken of, if you agree with it or not, the Bible is your moral back bone, even most Christian have ignored it.

Seriously, Osama *if* he had anything to do with 911, do you seriously think he is that stuppid to sit there plan all of that, then think right after it that there would be no consequence for his actions?, that America would just sit by and go whops, oh dear now we have to rebuild our towers again, bother. and do nothing? or perhaps they should have allow Saddam to go alone uninterupted and develop wmd and not have done anything about him invading kuwait at all, and then watched as saddam finally after some many years launching his nuclear devices & or chemical at Isreal or America (which already has nuclear suit case sized bombs in it anyway, not under control of the amy), then perhaps America should have sat by and said, ooo look what nice fires we have.

The problem here is, action or inaction, sometimes doing nothing can be worse than doing something, but either way -something- even if it's nothing has to be done regardless.

[Rings]

i vote for free tits&beer in the world

[Psychophanta]

I live in Alicante (Spain) and here are several "holidays" (I'll never understand why the "holy" name for a fest day for the anglo-saxon language 8O ) per year because christians won to moslems here. Perhaps Bush (who suffer the christian superstition too) wants to imitate us and celebrate Christians vs Moslems victory .

Christianism is a small error which happened some time ago (about 2000 years), an error which has been dragged and dragged and expanded and expanded, because it is an ideal cancer, along those 2000 years. Christianism, that superstition, have made perhaps the biggest of harms to the humanity all over the known history (the other part of caused havoc to the humanity was caused by the rest of religions ).
And some ideal-sick people still want to continue.

Sick people is the most abundant people in the world, and they seem to continue disturbing to thinking, sensitive, creative, researcher and individual-spirit people. People who has personal things to do, not only what is imposed.

This could seem hard, but it should be much better that people was made from laboratories instead from caverns.

However, religions (heavenly superstitions) are a good and pleasure sickness for those who "suffer" it; and that's the reason why it sold (and sadly sell) so much.

[Psychophanta]

To karbon, codemonger and freedimension:

Human wars (ALL) are due to servants existence. Soldiers and people who go to "help??" are those servants. Don't forget never.

[freedimension]

Some quotes by a great mind of his time:

"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security,
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."

"The best thing to give to your enemy is forgiveness; to an opponent, tolerance; to a friend, your heart; to your child, a good example; to a father, deference; to your mother, conduct that will make her proud of you; to yourself, respect; to all men, charity."

Benjamin Franklin



On the other hand there is this guy who only thought he was a great mind:

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it"

"Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live."

"As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice"

"What luck for the rulers that men do not think"

Adolf Hitler

[Psychophanta]

"As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice"

Adolf Hitler

Are you sure this is not from Bush

Adolf Hitler was, apart of other things, an exacerbately romantic human. And mostly of high-romanticisms become in tragedy. Do you imagine what happens if a romantic person like this get the power on masses

... A bit off topic in this thread:
Hey guys; Have you heard about a computer programming language which very easy to use, fast, etc.? Its name is PureBasic, and there is a forum in inet .... .... .... http://forums.purebasic.com/english/

[freedimension]

Hey guys; Have you heard about a computer programming language which very easy to use, fast, etc.? Its name is PureBasic, and there is a forum in inet .... .... .... http://forums.purebasic.com/english/

This is the Off Topic section of this Forum ...


... so please don't get off topic

[GedB]

Rings,

Free tits are already distributed to 50% of the population.

It hardly seems fair, since this is the half of the population who don't really appreicate them. And they get two each!

[GedB]

Inner,

Actually Islam has tolerance of other religions contained within its teachings.

This is contrast to Christianity, such as that preached in the Revelation links above. These christians are patiantly waiting for God to smite all the non-believers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_other_religions

[Psychophanta]

These christians are patiantly waiting for God to smite all the non-believers.

And then what are they waiting for to die and found their god?
They are not sure? Perhaps inferno is waiting for them?

Moreover:
I'd like that god exist to say somethings to him! Sorry "Him"
I would he to realize he is not a benefactor, but a criminal. I would he to realize he is my existencial-enemy.

Oooops. Judaeo-christians who read this will think i am Lucifer. :roll:

[Dare2]

Rings,

Free tits are already distributed to 50% of the population.

It hardly seems fair, since this is the half of the population who don't really appreicate them. And they get two each!

lol


Edit:

To go out on a limb here:

Judaism and Islam spring from the same roots (via people like Abraham) and both religions share many of the same revered people.

There has been multiple branching, so there are many flavours of both.

Some flavours of Christianity are oriented to old testament and are really another branch of Judaism. In these, the Gospel (good news) of the first 4 books of the new testament is secondary to the old testament.

For those professing to be Christians, for the sake of your own soul, read:

Matthew 7.1-5 (Luke 6.37-)
Matthew 7.21-23 (Luke 13.25-)
Matthew 23.1-12 (Mark 12.38- Luke 11.43-, 20.45)
Matthew 23.13-16 (Luke 11.39-)

And God be with you.

PS:

Remember that early Christians were the persecuted, not the persecutors. Remember that the meek shall inherit the earth.

Can we be sure that the established, dogmatic organised religions of today not also the Pharisees of the modern age? All shining outside and filled with filth inside?

[Karbon]

Ahh.. Those quotes are so nice, I'm tearing up over here.... Should we start a camp fire, hold hands and sing, and hope all the bad people in the world go away?

C'mon. You all give naive new meaning

[Dare2]

Should we start a camp fire, hold hands and sing ..

As long as you supply the marshmallows.



Heck, how do you spell marshmellow/marshmallow?