Update to 4.0

Everything else that doesn't fall into one of the other PB categories.
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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by freak.

> I think the docs are OK, because its not a "learn basic in 21 days"
> book, but a reference.

That's true, but it should be good enough, hat if you are used to programming, it tells you the basic things, so you don't have to look
into a Forum to get started.

It should be more clear in some Points for example:

#Hello = 10 is a constant.

now, for the Librarys like Gadget, it says in the Command Syntax:

Frame3DGadget(#Gadget, x, y, Width, Heigth, Text$, Flags)

This really confused me for the first time (and others, too), becourse if it says #something is a constant, then #Gadget has to be one too.

What I want to say, is there is a section called ' Words used in this manual' under 'General Syntax Rules'. Maybe something like that should be mentioned there. Or even creating an own 'About this Manual' section would be good to start.

Another Important thing, that is really confusing:

WindowID() returns the ID (Windows uses) for a #Window
EventWindowID() returns #Window

Both are called ID! Now if the Manual talks about ID's, which one is meant? - Another thing that should be more clear.


Another thing is, that we've found a lot of stuff here at the Forum, where somebody said: 'wow, this should be really mentioned in the docs.'
For a lot of commands, the docs say, what it does in general, but (as you said) it doesn't tell about the results, or other important things about the command.

For example MessageRequester: what does it return, if you presed
OK, or Chancel if you specify #PB_MessageRequester_YesNoCancel?
- You have to find out yourself :(

Or EventType():
The Docs don't say exactly where to use it. So people try to use it to detect for example a Rightmouseclick anywhere in the Window. But this isn't possible. The Docs should say something like: 'EventType() only shows what Type of Event happened on a Gadget, it can not catch events on the Window's background.'

It's those missing little additions, that make users wasting time on debuggig things that are not meant to work that way.

I'm not talking about 'learning Pb in 21 days' here, i'm talking about 'not confusing people comming from a programmig background' !!

The Docs are quite OK, they just lack those little things.

Hope this clears up my point a bit...

Timo



--------------------------------
Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and
better idiot-proof programs and the universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots.

...So far, the universe is winning.
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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Berikco.

Yep, they are ok, but not for a starter....

just take SendNetworkData(ConnectionID, *MemoryBuffer, Length)
I could not find in the docs that this actualy returns the number of bytes send...

So freak is wright, they just lack those little things.


Regards,

Berikco

http://www.benny.zeb.be
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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by fweil.

freak ... and all,

Well I will try to make it advance significantly in the following days but I still hope not to be alone !

I agree we have definitely to get a deeper documentation beore to feel clean enough to welcome much more users ...

KRgrds

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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Kale.

we need an online ref that can include user comments, that would be nice :)

--Kale

New to PureBasic and falling in Love! :)
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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by freak.

> we need an online ref that can include user comments, that would be nice :)

There was one at the Recource Site, but almost nobody wrote anything, so it's closed now.
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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Andre.

I totally agree with you, freak, that parameters and results should be FULLY described in the manual. Then it should be complete as a REFERENCE.
For example MessageRequester: what does it return, if you presed OK, or Chancel if you specify #PB_MessageRequester_YesNoCancel?
- You have to find out yourself :(
This I have included in the german pdf manual, but has to find out myself. Hadn't time to include it in the new docs cvs. But there are so much more commands... (which I haden't used yet, so can't say anything.)

Like fweil said, there should work some people together. I will do - as always - the german version :)

Regards
André

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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by fweil.

Andre,

Would you like to send me any file you find interesting to include in both english / french docs and only exist in german, I will work on this firstly.

Rgrds


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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Andre.

Hello Francois, here is the link to the german pdf manual I've written:
http://www.topos-web.de/docs/purebasic/handbuch.pdf

Would be nice, if you could find anything useful and would include it in the CVS system. I will do it later (haven't much time these days) for the german version, when I could compare with new/updated english help files...

Regards
André

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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by fweil.

Andre,

I will have a look. Not sure to be a perfect german reader but it should work.

BTW, the comparisons between different languages in the CVS remains a problem I mentionned to Fred. Maybe we could try to imagine a PureBasic application to help ?!

Rgrds

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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Andre.
I will have a look. Not sure to be a perfect german reader but it should work.
BTW, the comparisons between different languages in the CVS remains a problem I mentionned to Fred. Maybe we could try to imagine a PureBasic application to help ?!
Do you use the WinCVS program?
Normally I look for updates in the english section and then do my updates for the german one...
What do you think, the application should do exactly?


Regards
André

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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by fweil.

André,

I use the CVS. The problem I have is when I look for updates after a long time (just because I do not follow updates step by step), it is not easy to have a quick understanding of what has changed.

When using such groupware with a single language makes possible to run a diff program that shows differences between two versions of a file for example. But I don't know a good way to make a diff between the french and english versions of a text.

CVS gives udpates according to messages placed by writers in the system, but these messages are not always accurate enough to go fast to parts of files to update.

So, here I just try to explain but the main point is that I suffered a bit when the 3.40 was delivered because of much updates to make in french files according to english ones. This mean that I had to read all messages and files and to find where modifications were made in each english files to put them in french files. This to be made on much files at the same time was a mess ... because I did not follow updates step by step.

What maybe could help a little bit should be something like a table or a summary of files and parts of files (like paragraphs or something like that), where we could have a simple way to tell each other that something changed.

Well ... I mean CVS makes easy to see something has changed in a given file, but maybe we need a deeper information about what has changed in this given file.

If you don't know what I mean with a diff program (like the one used in Unix systems), it can generate the vi (text editor) macro file corresponding to the todo list for changing a former version to the next one on a text file.

So maybe we could have something like that telling in a given language what has changed between last and next version of a file (starting in english if we assume this is the reference language). Then seeing the differences in english would make purhaps easier to go to localized files updates.

Using CVS does not show it in a way that makes it simple when a lot of files have changed.

Anyway, I know that following updates day by day would make it easy and I do not question the use of CVS.

Rgrds



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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Danilo.

fweil,

you can make a diff against a special version with CVS.
If current is v1.78, you can make a diff against v1.11 easily.
But diff against different languages isnt possible, because
the files for french or german contain other text.

But you can DIFF v1.78 english against v1.11 english
to see all differences in the english version.
Just use rightlick > diff selection > compare two revisions/tags/branches/dates

cya,
...Danilo

(registered PureBasic user)
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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by fweil.

Allright Danilo. Thank you for the tip. I am a poor CVS user ! I will check diffs next time updates will be posted.

Thanks a lot

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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Andre.
I am a poor CVS user ! I will check diffs next time updates will be posted.
Hi,hi! Thanks Danilo, also from me. Hasn't known this feature before (before PB I've never used CVS) and so has sometimes also checked the whole files by hand :cry:

But so all should be clear now and will could live with the CVS. :)

Regards
André

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Post by BackupUser »

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by tejon.

I agree with Tranquil and PB, and purchased another licence
as a Cristmas present to Fred.
keep up the good work.
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