Underwater storm

[Olli]

I saw a small vessel was lost under the see near the "Titanic".

I imagine an underwater storm which causes important problems. And the several sounds to which the rescue have listen, were an old roasted door of the Titanic which hits sometimes, due to the underwater storm.

I hope I am false, sure, for the lifes of those who have explored the depth and are actually cought, but I doubt...

Physically, the energies in the depth of ocean are very powerful (pressure, temperature and flow).

A single jet of water (pressure = 400 bars) cut a body, as a knife.

[benubi]

That's exactly what I also think, I have multiple ideas tho.

Just a "little" water current, an object falling on it or being thrown against it could destroy it. A lost fishing net, debris, trees or ropes under water...

The sub probably dived a lot of times close to the limit of it's capacity, maybe the material becomes brittle after time, micro-fissures appear or were already present when the material was manufactured... It's an interesting parallel that when the Titanic sunk more than a century ago it also cost many rich and famous people their lives, and there were also rumors about faulty brittle steel being a reason for the sinking.

I am surprised they haven't been able to locate the submersible yet, but I am also not an expert on such matters.

[jacdelad]

...or it's just the same as always: Do everything as cheap as possible until someone dies. At least according to this article (in German): https://www.golem.de/news/ocean-gate-ve ... 75161.html

I guess they're dead, for days already.

[Olli]

I am surprised they haven't been able to locate the submersible yet, but I am also not an expert on such matters

Hello benubi,

very hard to find anything I think :

- on the surface, temperature, wind and waves
- on the depth, the water flow bring deep materials, as the sand in a desert + the big reliefs (near 30 meters in this area)

I imagine two ways :
- a physical pressure problem, and they died earlier. So a underwater storm moved anything big and metallic on the Titanic what it caused strange sounds.
- a command problem, what it catched the persons anywhere in the depth. In this way, perhaps the rescues have all simply listened a blast gun of anybody who wanted to save his live by pushing forward the oxygen availabilities.

In such a vessel in the conditions described, it is cold as in a frigo, there is no food, just one sandwich four days ago, just a small water bottle four days ago, and it smells like in a public toilet, and a high stress due to the miss of oxygen... A hell...

If I was the father of a 19 years old child, like in these conditions, I think I will do everything for that this young person would have chances to live. In this way, the young man is actually alive.

It's an interesting parallel that when the Titanic sunk more than a century ago it also cost many rich and famous people their lives, and there were also rumors about faulty brittle steel being a reason for the sinking.

I have an other parallel : this with the whole word. Really, we are living on a spherical surface, like on the surface of a bubble. There is no life over, or under this surface...

[Olli]

Note (and I apologize to jacdelad for its link which certainly is good, but I cannot reach it...) :

The deepest hole under the see is named "Mariana trench" (very far of the Titanic).
The depth is 11 kilometers.

That means the oxygen does not exist on the state of gas in a such pressure !

[the.weavster]

I don't understand the logic, why take such a massive risk and endure such claustrophobic discomfort when you could send down an ROV and watch the footage from a comfortable chair with a coffee and some chocolate hobnobs? I bet you'd get a better view than taking it in turns to peek out of a tiny port hole anyway.

I guess for the families there's some comfort in an implosion being instantaneous which is far better than the alternative demise in this scenario

[Olli]

Rest in peace for them...

@the.weaster

Sure for the aquatic robots... Two cameras and a VR device anywhere in the earth. $100 per hour the price to drive the robot via internet. Who casts ?


(Physical info : a 2 meters sided box must resist to a pressure near 16 000 tons. Such a vessel as Titan should resist a mass near 40 000 tons. Excepted an empty titanium ball, very well forged, preventing all availability of door, nothing, containing more than ten meters cube of zero bar gas, can resist)

[jacdelad]

Note (and I apologize to jacdelad for its link which certainly is good, but I cannot reach it...) :

The deepest hole under the see is named "Mariana trench" (very far of the Titanic).
The depth is 11 kilometers.

That means the oxygen does not exist on the state of gas in a such pressure !

Basically and roughly citing the article: An employee already told multiple times that the vessel was not safe, an official investigation came to the conclusion that it should not dive below 3000 meters, the plastic windows were designed for 1000 meters, the rump (?) was build of carbon (which is not the best choice, there's a reason why other vessels are made from titan (how ironically)) replaced multple times as it got fissions and deformations after one dive (and no one knows which rump was used this time) and then there's the thing about the logitech controller (but I assume, without any evidence) that they have cabled backup controls and the controller was just for convenience).

However, in my eyes it doesn't need an underwater storm or harsh conditions, it was just a matter of time until the catastrophe. Also, I'm surprised how much oxygen they had onboard, didn't expect that.

[Olli]

Also, I'm surprised how much oxygen they had onboard, didn't expect that.

You can have lots of high pressure gas bottle in a high pressure environment. Such bottle are more dangerous on the surface than in the deep water.

I talk about storm because the rescue listened sound every 30 minutes, wednesday. And they heard accoustic digits.

In my opinion, the chances to hear anything three days after a dive are more from a underwater storm than people under water. If it was people, it would be sure it would be after three days of hell.

[jacdelad]

True, but I just didn't expect them to take so much oxygen since it looks like they reduced wherever possible (and more).

Also, I read that when another sub sank some years ago, they heard knocking too, but never found it, though the knocking was located. They assume now, that it was some natural occurence.

[Nituvious]

I'm curious to know if they even could save them since the submarine was so deep, how would they tow it out? And what about the extreme pressure changes of going from the bottom of the ocean to the surface?

[Olli]

Also, I read that when another sub sank some years ago, they heard knocking too, but never found it, though the knocking was located. They assume now, that it was some natural occurence.

You are right. I will go there below...


Hello nituvious,

we can imagine 3 pressures :

space = 0 bar
normal altitude = 1 bar
titanic depth = 400 bars
deepest oceanic hole = 1100 bars

1st idea : it is far easier to make a spaceship than to make a sub vessel.

2nd idea : adapting your environment to the pressure. Main problem : the body does not bear a too fast pressure change. We must waste lots of time to change the pressure, in the two directions : go down, and go up.

3rd idea : not adapting your environment, but use a strong vessel. That is the way of Titan and others systems.

So he could theorically go back to the surface very quickly.

What it surprises me it is the matter (or "material") used : carbon.

Iron plane has a perpendicular break.
But carbon plane has a parallel break.
Glass plane has a random break.

The scientists will take lots of time to know what it exactly happened.

I recome to this strange "knocks" heard 3 days after the implode.

And jacdelad has been written this strange event already happened on an other sinking sub.

Let's imagine a candle hold one year horizontally : after one year the candle is very curved.
The candle matter breaks on ambiant temperature, and merges itself again.

Iron does not merge : just break. This is viewed through X rays.

Glass merges also but only one nanometer every billion years. So it breaks.

Carbon breaks also but per layers (horizontal).

So, I maybe will be false. But I think the previewing strange "knock" already heard in a older sinking event, this means then the sub were composed of carbon.

Because a iron metallic break will do an immediate loose of the sealing.
But a carbon break, does not do a loose of the sealing. The break is horizontal on a horizontal carbon plane. That means several carbon layers break between themselves but the layers stay intact, like the pages of a thick book, pre-dipped in lemonade that has dried out, we are binding.

An implosion, it is a main crushing, followed by any secondary crushings.
The first crushing pushes two opposite surfaces one against the other very quickly. Once the two surfaces are touching themselves, the others surfaces have less pressure constraints.

These smaller surface break up less quickly. And more there is folding, less quick the next crushings will be.

If the rescues have listened strange "knocks" after three days, this means the cockpit did not loose its gas, at least, after the first crushing, the carbon envelope has stayed in one piece, and the porthole is maybe intact.

[Olli]

Uh? A titanium cockpit, and a carbon fiber stern, whom the internal armature is so frail, as the illustration. There is a horrible joke behind all that...
Plus, an officer who tells maybe the DNAs won't be retrieved. I cannot believe all that !
I will wait a real investigation...