Using designed forms in an application

[Fred]

your can try sqlite with ":memory:" as filename. About the designer, it was included lately in the package (the previous designer was obsolete), with 5.10 a documentation should be added.

[Mindphazer]

Oh, great. A complex environment with zero documentation. Where can I get a refund?

If you had bought Purebasic a few months ago, neither OS X and Linux versions had any Visual Designer included.
So you would had been much more upset !!!

[blueb]

Personally I'd stay away from the Visual Designer for a
few weeks and build forms and events manually.
I'd even go so far to say:

"design console applications for a while"

And build on this knowledge.

[nospam]

your can try sqlite with ":memory:" as filename.

Good grief! Brilliant catch. Thank you. I found more information here:
https://www.sqlite.org/inmemorydb.html

I'll try it out right away.

About the designer, it was included lately in the package (the previous designer was obsolete), with 5.10 a documentation should be added.

Yes, polo indicated documentation was on its way.

[nospam]

Oh, great. A complex environment with zero documentation. Where can I get a refund?

If you had bought Purebasic a few months ago, neither OS X and Linux versions had any Visual Designer included.
So you would had been much more upset !!!

No, I wouldn't. I simply wouldn't have bought PureBasic and would instead have gone, very reluctantly, to Mono under Linux. Doing that would have saved me a fortune's worth of effort because I wouldn't need to convert the code, but then, it wouldn't have offered the opportunity for so much fun to be had either.

[nospam]

Personally I'd stay away from the Visual Designer for a
few weeks and build forms and events manually.
I'd even go so far to say:

"design console applications for a while"

And build on this knowledge.

I know you're making a statement about yourself but I've seen that argument elsewhere in other posts on this forum posed as advice to others in the very same situation as I was in; looking for a kick-start on getting the GUI and code-behind working asap. I don't agree with it.

It might apply to inexperienced programmers but there are some of us who have many years of experience in various languages so understanding the fundamentals of the tools available is sufficient to become productive very quickly. Knowledge of the language comes quickly, easily and naturally after a rapid kick-start.

[blueb]

... Knowledge of the language comes quickly, easily and naturally after a rapid kick-start.

True, but sometimes graphics get in the way of "just getting the job done"

[nospam]

... Knowledge of the language comes quickly, easily and naturally after a rapid kick-start.

True, but sometimes graphics get in the way of "just getting the job done"

lol - the advantage then is all mine because I have no great interest the language's legendary graphic's capabilities.

[BorisTheOld]

I agree with "nospam" that documentation is needed for the Form Designer -- now not later. And I'm also disappointed that so many people have responded negatively to his comments.

For those who wanted to try the Designer, the program has been available for testing, and questions could be asked on the forums. But releasing a major version of PB, without the proper documentation, is unprofessional and a disservice to PB users. Not everyone is a hobbyist who has the time to waste on an undocumented programming tool.

PB may be inexpensive, and various people may have donated their time, but that's no excuse for releasing a product without documentation.

[Polo]

I think I already did a lot of work building a new form designer for you guys, ok there's no documentation right now, there will be, the fact there's none yet is because we're integrating it into the IDE, which means it will look a bit different. That's why the doc wasn't written for this version.

Now, seriously, if you're not happy, stick with the old designer which has a documentation and wait till next version...

[BorisTheOld]

I think I already did a lot of work building a new form designer for you guys, ok there's no documentation right now, there will be, the fact there's none yet is because we're integrating it into the IDE, which means it will look a bit different. That's why the doc wasn't written for this version.

Your efforts are greatly appreciated, but if the Designer is incomplete and not ready for production then it should not have been part of a major release of PB. It should have continued in beta and been released when it was properly integrated with the IDE.

Software should only be released when it's fully tested and documented. First impressions are important.

[nospam]

if the Designer is incomplete and not ready for production then it should not have been part of a major release of PB. It should have continued in beta and been released when it was properly integrated with the IDE.

Software should only be released when it's fully tested and documented. First impressions are important.

I concur with the comments about Polo's efforts. It's great work he's done. However you raise a very important point that many seem to have missed. It is not unreasonable, by any stretch of the imagination, to expect documentation for software that's been purchased. And the software is indeed included in the purchase.

All the fuss could have been avoided with a simple mini-tutorial put up on a website or in the forums here somewhere, rather than being told a) there is no documentation, and b) if you don't like it, bad luck, drop back one major release.

You're also right about first impressions...

I might write a mini-tutorial myself and put it up. It won't take more than an hour's work.

[nospam]

I think I already did a lot of work building a new form designer for you guys, ok there's no documentation right now, there will be, the fact there's none yet is because we're integrating it into the IDE, which means it will look a bit different. That's why the doc wasn't written for this version.

Now, seriously, if you're not happy, stick with the old designer which has a documentation and wait till next version...

Your work is unquestionable, but BorisTheOld has a point. How would you feel if you went out and bought, say, a milk frother that came with a free coffee machine and all you got for a user guide was a thick tome all about the frother and not a mention of the coffee machine? How would you feel if a company representative, which is what you are whether you like it or not, said to you, "Now, seriously, if you're not happy, [use a coffee machine] that has documentation and wait till the next milk frother comes out..."?

And telling your customers, because that's what I am, one of your customers whether you like it or not, to go back a version if I don't like the idea of not having documentation, is a great way to bust Fred's product sales right through the floor. You can't do or say things like that to people if you want to succeed. And even if it's granted that you're doing it for free, somebody isn't because I paid more than a hundred bucks. I assume Fred isn't doing it for free, so if I were Fred I'd be telling you to pull your head in and don't antagonise the customers.

[Polo]

You're not my customer.

[nospam]

I note you didn't answer the question I asked, btw. It stands unanswered. How would you feel?

You're not my customer.

Well then, if I and others are not your customers, stop saying "I did a lot of work building a new form designer for you guys" and stop taking all the kudos for work well done that goes with it. At the end of the day I paid for release 5 and a form designer was included but there is no documentation for it. That's the single salient point about the issue being discussed in this thread, yet you and others keep missing it. If you don't get paid for your work then that's your problem, not anyone else's, and telling me I should go to an old version is nothing more than a feeble attempt at trying to make it my problem.

I accept that there is no documentation for the designer. There's nothing much I can do about it, apart from what I'm doing now, voicing my opinion. Instead of wasting your time reading my posts and replying to defend what I take to be an utterly indefinsible position, take the next hour to knock up a mini tutorial for the current release and post it in this sub forum. Problem solved. And as a bonus, you'll get thanks and praise from me. And as a super-value-added bonus, I'll shut up.

I don't need the mini tutorial, btw, but Fred's new paying customers might... You know, the ones that pay more than a hundred bucks for software that has a complex and integral but completely undocumented feature included with it. Of course I am assuming that Fred has any customers left after they've been thoroughly antagonised with the cop-outs, excuses, denials, fantastical musings and imaginings, the denigration of programming skills, personal insults and utter rudeness that are displayed in this thread.