Feature Request: .x-files

[Olby]

So why am I the ass and not you?

Em.. probably because he's not acting cocky.
I can't help you until you post up the model files anyway.

[Thade]

Could you put your T-Rex for download so we can play a bit with it ?

I will zip it, add some different meshes from different converters and load it up - I send the link via PM sometime tonight ...

Thanks
RR

[J. Baker]

I don't think you want the game engine converting them eternally. That would be a slow repetitive process. It shouldn't be to hard to convert them to OGRE's format. Can you be more specific on the issue or post screenshots?

Hi J. Baker

You ask me to be specific - have you read what I wrote? Why don't you be specific first? Are you taking theoretical or do you have something already done? A game with many animated models? Which were converted within minutes from other formats?

Please drop into threads, when you have something constructive to add ... not just bla bla

Thank you
RR

I was just trying to help. Yes, I know the OGRE format well and have done 3D for for over a decade. I see what the problem is by your screen shots. But since your an ass, figure it out on your own.

I am not an ass - I only don't want to waste my time with talk about theory ...
You could just have reacted on one of the statements before - showing what you have to offer - but when you say "it should not be too hard to convert" does not show that you have ever tried ...
So why am I the ass and not you?

Seriously!

Anyway, look at your mesh file under <boneassignments>. You're bone id's or weights is incorrect causing the mesh to deform. Seen this many of times. Some 3D file formats are able to use bone id's that are out of order. When converting to OGRE, they need to be re-assigned and in order. Most likely your exporter is not doing that.

[Thade]

So why am I the ass and not you?

Em.. probably because he's not acting cocky.
I can't help you until you post up the model files anyway.

Hi Olby

Well, this thread is gone a bit off topic ... it was a feature request ..

And the sense behind was - why is here so little action? Could it be that too many people have problems converting animated models, just as I have?
Are there people which have found ways to convert without problems at all?
Wouldn't it be more constructive to load x-files or one or two other formats without that unpredictable conversions?

It does not help if you or someone else may convert one of my models successfully ... if I try 10 hours I manage to find a setting when it works - but the next model makes the same trouble ... and it is no fun to run into that problem every time ...

RR

[PMV]

The best experience i had was OGREMax: http://www.ogremax.com/downloads
The non-comercial version is a bit limited, but
with that you should be able to test everything.
I doesn't have used animations by now and
because i'm still testing what i will use at the end,
i can't say more about that.

3D is not a one click action. Thats what many
people figure out by themself and thats why
there are so many people who doesn't want to
wast your time.

MFG PMV

[J. Baker]

Yeah, I have had issues with a few exporters. Just bad programming. So I made my own for CharacterFX as I prefer animating in it.
http://www.purebasic.fr/english/viewtop ... 36&t=51569

[Thade]

Anyway, look at your mesh file under <boneassignments>. You're bone id's or weights is incorrect causing the mesh to deform. Seen this many of times. Some 3D file formats are able to use bone id's that are out of order. When converting to OGRE, they need to be re-assigned and in order. Most likely your exporter is not doing that.

Well, the point is ... I wrote about converters already in the first posts ...
I have converted this file to .b3d - I load it into Blitz3D and it works (unfortunately Blitz3d is a bit out of date)
If I use it as .x-file as it is it works in every engine ... (unfortunaley the most engine I'd like to work with are under development or have stopped development or are not versatile enough) ... one of the reasons I am here!

What I was talking about the whole thread now ... there is no converter able to just convert the 100 % working and good looking x-file as it is and as it works to Ogre format ...

Not I have to look into the Boneassignments - because they are obviosly ok for every other engine and in every other converted format - only for Ogre they are not ...

That's why I started that feature request ... because if I am right and the reason so few people use PB for 3D Games Programming because of the timeconsuming unproductive conversions - which in too many cases does not work - then something should be done ...

RR

[J. Baker]

That's because whatever OGRE exporter you are using is not correctly assigning the bone id's properly possibly. Like I said, some 3D file formats are loose on the bone id's and work fine but OGRE itself doesn't like that. It's not a PB issue.

An OGRE exporter should verify that the id's are in order in the skeleton file (example 1 -10). If they are some like 2, 5, 34,... out of order, they need to be re-assigned in order for the skeleton file, then properly assigned in the mesh file.

[Thade]

The best experience i had was OGREMax: http://www.ogremax.com/downloads
The non-comercial version is a bit limited, but
with that you should be able to test everything.
I doesn't have used animations by now and
because i'm still testing what i will use at the end,
i can't say more about that.

3D is not a one click action. Thats what many
people figure out by themself and thats why
there are so many people who doesn't want to
wast your time.

MFG PMV

Hi PMV

At least there's some action here today.
I am working with 3D since 20 years - I am no beginner. I wrote books and published magazines - I developed a Game Basic for the C64 long before PureBasic was on the market ... I programmed an own 3D chat and had it running made with Blitz3D when canal numedia and cybertown where more popular with their communities ...

Looking for the engine that helps to bring your ideas into reality is not easy. I have 10 development systems - but since I make all apps with PB I want to give it a try since the 3D Part has gone that far now ...
But it must be useable - if its a masterpiece to convert one model to the internal format, then it isn't ...

cheers
RR

[J. Baker]

I'm confused and I'm not questioning what you say you have done for 20 years. But with this experience you should be able to figure this out easily or even write your own exporter.

I would read both the DirectX format and OGRE format and figure out where the error lies. Then just fix it how ever it pleases you best.

[Thade]

That's because whatever OGRE exporter you are using is not correctly assigning the bone id's properly possibly. Like I said, some 3D file formats are loose on the bone id's and work fine but OGRE itself doesn't like that. It's not a PB issue.

PB has chosen Ogre as the 3D Engine so its well a PB issue ...

An OGRE exporter should verify that the id's are in order in the skeleton file (example 1 -10). If they are some like 2, 5, 34,... out of order, they need to be re-assigned in order for the skeleton file, then properly assigned in the mesh file.

Well said - but tell me the ogre exporter where you have a choice to select anything ... I see you have not read many of that what I wrote above in this thread .. most things are written already.
I got the advice to try Ultima Unwrap ... the worst result so far ... although it has it least some choice and trying different things out is at least possible ...

As I said above I had some success with some written code to alter the animation keys in the xml file before the conversion to skeleton ... but its a lottery ... some times it works in most cases not ...

Actually - If I really care and I find out I must use PB for 3D Games programming because its the best language to work with and there is no other way, I would write the x- to XML Converter on my own - knowing it would work ... it should not be that hard to compare the Ogre-Files of models which work with original files and write a conversion tool ... the specifications seem to be quite simple ... that's why I am so astonished that not one programmer has managed to write an errorfree functioning conversion tool yet.

I am quite sure if I change each translate value to their fix starting point or to 0.000 the funny spider arms in that model above are history ... because I made it before and sometimes the result is exact right - but thats not the way I want to work ...

Code: Select all

                 <keyframe time="2.233333">
                     <translate x="-0.023944" y="0.000212" z="-0.264893" />
                     <rotate angle="0.044087">
                        <axis x="0.461399" y="0.095909" z="0.882084" />
                     </rotate>
                  </keyframe>

RR

[Thade]

I'm confused and I'm not questioning what you say you have done for 20 years. But with this experience you should be able to figure this out easily or even write your own exporter.

I would read both the DirectX format and OGRE format and figure out where the error lies. Then just fix it how ever it pleases you best.

That forum should tell when someone writes an answer ...
I just wrote what you suggested while you were writing as well.

RR

[J. Baker]

That's odd. If you change the translate values to their fixed values (or 0) and it's fine, then you are definitely using a bad exporter. This is when I talk about bad programming in some of the exporters (non-PureBasic related). There should definitely be error checking in your exporter, which doesn't seem to be the case. But anyway, it should (the exporter) easily be able to copy and paste the correct translate values.

If you send me a simple DirectX file that you are having issues with, I can check it out. But wouldn't be able to go through it thoroughly until later tonight when I have more time.

[Fred]

Could you please put your faulty .x somewhere so we can experiment as well ? J.Baker: if you know how to solve this, i could probably put the fix in the OgreASSIMPConverter, and send it to its official maintainer.

I just found this thread: http://www.neoaxis.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2964

Code: Select all

Fragmotion will import .x with animations and export to ogre's XML. You'll have to run the XML through the converter (I use the one for 3ds Max) to get the .mesh and .skeleton files.

Did you tried ? I have put OgreXMLMeshConverter online if you need it: http://www.purebasic.com/download/OgreX ... verter.zip

[J. Baker]

J.Baker: if you know how to solve this, i could probably put the fix in the OgreASSIMPConverter, and send it to its official maintainer.

No problem. Just waiting for a response from Thade, if he chooses to share his model.