[Implemented] Redim PRESERVE

Karbon · Post by **Karbon** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 7:12 pm

Fun fun! I love arguing.. Keeps me from doing work! All light hearted I hope you understand

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It sounds lke what you want is a new compiler, not a new language. I don't know that there is a BASIC standard but if there is then none of the other BASICish languages I've used come close to being the same as far as procedure/function names go.

PB isn't perfect but by the same token it's not Visual Basic, Power Basic, Dark Basic, Blitz Basic, QBASIC, BASICA, HotBasic, DeskBasic, CarBasic, CatBasic, DogBasic, MouseBasic etc etc etc..

Just out of curiosity - what Windows BASIC do you use and love?

G'day, mate!

Akuma no Houkon · Post by **Akuma no Houkon** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 7:27 pm

I use PowerBasic7 for windows, IT conforms to the standard basic syntax where I can cut and copy code from almost ANY basic language and it works without modification in PowerBasic. Its speed (so far in my tests) is about equal to PureBasic, but it has had 15 years to mature, so its command list and functions are amazing compared to PureBasic's, things like ARRAY SCAN, ARRAY SORT, 2 GB string sizes, Quad variable types and higher, redim preserve!, TRUE Select Case structures, just so many things that it has that purebasic doesnt, (and the fact that it conforms to the standard basic syntaxes and keywords) that even if it was $400 and PureBasic was free I would still use it over PureBasic.

But this conversation isnt about what languages I USED TO USE in windows (I do not program in windows anymore so its a moot point) Its about PureBasic claiming they support "All BASIC Keywords", when infact they only support a very very few. I dont mind, mind you, I just write (so far 12) functions that wrap PureBasic funtions arround common keywords and syntax.

I just hate how every one of my topics on this forum are usually answered with some stupid crap about how I should search for the command or look in the help file, yet PureBasic doesnt use any standard so its like looking for a needle in a haystack. In a million years I wouldnt have thought of ProgramParamater for the COMMAND LINE (I can kinda see how it would loosly be related, but every single programing language I have ever used used Command$ or something very similar, usually always with the name COMMAND in it somewhere), I search and search and search and still come up with nothing. I dont mind that its ProgramParamater, doesnt make much of a differnce to me. But I tried about 20 differnt options when searching and none of them had Program or Paramater in them. I tried "Arguments", "Command", "Commandline", "Command line arguments", etc...etc... Searching so far as never brought any useable results. (weather on the forums or helpfile)

Again, I say, so you know I am fully behind and supporting PureBasic, I have not found a better linux compiler anywhere, and its a good language. Worth the high learning curve as long as the users on the forums dont answer every question with "you know there IS a search function on these forums" or some such. The threads in these forums vary so much and talk about so many things that when I am searching for something that I have no idea what the command name is (or if it even exists) so I have to generalize my search, the results are usually 40 pages long. It gives me damn near every topic.

Karbon · Post by **Karbon** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:28 pm

Hehehe.. Ok, one parting hit before I must go do some work..

Post that BASIC standard and list of keywords, I want to have a look!

some stupid crap about how I should search for the command or look in the help file, yet PureBasic doesnt use any standard so its like looking for a needle in a haystack.

But the "stupid crap" has a point! The point is that you shouldn't have expected for PureBasic to use PowerBasic syntax. Just read the help file then come and ask about anything that's unclear (and I mean really read it - don't try to use it as a reference for a language you've never used because of course you're not going to know what to look up!).

I know the free-form text search on the forum isn't the greatest but I searched for "command line" and the 3rd result has ProgramParameter() in the *topic*.

Good luck, hope you stick around as it's been fun giving you a hard time.. I think you might be taking it more seriously than I am!

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:37 pm

So I'd like to see "Then" after a "If" statement...
It's since my ZX Spectrum that I'm used so (and Amos, AmigaBlitz2, VBscript and VB too)

And why "Endif" when I've always seen "End If" ???

My request so far: Macros...

Akuma no Houkon · Post by **Akuma no Houkon** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:39 pm

Post that BASIC standard and list of keywords, I want to have a look!

Why doesnt fred post such a list? He seems to claim that it supports ALL of them, yet there isnt any such list he could have used. But its obivous what the standards for basic are, look at basic 10 years ago, and the basic languages today, everything that is STILL THE SAME, and is in almost ALL OF THOSE languages, are the standards, weather or not you have an offical list makes no differnce.

The standards were slightly updated with the advent of windows, but still remain amost wholely unchanged.

Good luck, hope you stick around as it's been fun giving you a hard time.. I think you might be taking it more seriously than I am!

I dont know, I am starting to get the feeling that this community is a closed mined self centered elitist community. You guys are worse than the people that the powerbasic forums, and I thought they were bad. Atleast there I can make a fucking suggestion (especially in a WISHLIST forum) and not have people jump down my thoat about it. You act like I am some god damn troll who comes here only to cause trouble. I post simple suggestions in a WISH LIST forum, and each suggestion is met with closed minded ness and some instinctive self defense denial mechanism that causes you to say "we dont want purebasic to be like every other language", when for most of it there is a damn good reason why all basic languages have the same functions, because after YEARS of experiance they are the functions that users want, need, and feel comfortable with.

If I could get a refund for purebasic, I would, and not because of the language itself, because of the community that surrounds it. Only a few have actually answered any of my posts with intelligent responses, and not jump down my thoat everytime I make a suggestion.

In the community I run, anyone who answers posts in the manner that most of you have to me, would be warned first and banned second, yet here it seems to be the norm. (My appolgies to those who are exceptions)

And why "Endif" when I've always seen "End If" ???

Because it looks like PureBasic cannot handle any keywords that have a space in them, End If would be parsed into "End" and "If" same with EndSelect, and many other commands that have be "compounded", Probably the way its parsed.

Karbon · Post by **Karbon** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:55 pm

Whoa fella. Let's keep it civil, no need to get all pissed off! You're the one that started he personal attacks when you called the leader of our beloved cult, Fred, a liar!

I want to see exactly what you're talking about with the standard! I'm not arguing the existence of such a standard so please post the standard. I thought the only "standard" BASIC stuff was the structure of conditionals and the clean line syntax. I could be very very very wrong about that!

Don't get into throwing mud if you don't want some thrown back at ya!

Karbon · Post by **Karbon** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:58 pm

Oh, you edited your post since I replied.

Man, don't get all huffy because I was giving you a hard time.

If anyone but Fred posts something against a feature request you can trash that post as he is the only guy that makes those decisions!

Akuma no Houkon · Post by **Akuma no Houkon** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 10:05 pm

Do you actually READ these posts? Or just skimm them enough to write your reply? If you notice MY FIRST POST IN THIS TOPIC has nothing to do with basic syntax, with fred's false advertisement, nothing to do with ANY OF IT. It was this community that started "the mud throwing" first. I was just throwing back like you said.

I am sure you are smart enough to tell what is basic and what is not, if you based it on what you said, there are thousands of languages and script languages that would fit into the basic catagory but do not. Its the common keywords, the structures, etc.. and fred doesnt say "Its like basic!" he said AND I QUOTE, "All BASIC Keywords suppored" which means alot more than simple structure and "clean line". In one quote he even used the Repeat : Until command as an example of how purebasic supports all the basic keywords, yet THAT ISNT a basic keyword, I have NEVER seen that in ANY language I have used, from basic on my commadore64 to the newest basic languages it has ALWAYS been DO:UNTIL. Saying otherwise is a down right lie. Plain and simple. Maybe not intentional but it is nonetheless.

Oh, you edited your post since I replied.

No I edited since you hit the New Post button, but everytime I edited it there was no post below mine so posting a new post would have been stupid.

And I never called Fred a liar, show me where you think I did. I said what he has posted is a lie, that doesnt mean he is a liar. It could be that he thinks it really does have all the basic keywords, it could be compeltly unintetional. It could be that he used some unquie langauge that called itself basic and based his assumptions on that, rather than the vast majority. You assume to much.

Again you guys seem to treat me like I am some kinda goddamn troll who wants nothing more than to cause trouble, rather than a PureBasic user who has purchased the program and has programed for many many years and knows a few commands or options that would help make purebasic into a better language, one offering his support for the program.

Post by **freak** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 10:37 pm

Ok, everybody stop now, please!
This discussion leads to nowhere.

With my post earlier, i didn't mean to start a war, sorry that it did.

You have a point with the "All BASIC Keywords suppored". But as there is
no *real* standart, you can't say it is a complete lie. Hey, that is an add,
which advertisement in the workd is 100% accurate? I would not argue that
much about that now. Everybody can see in the Demo, what the language
looks like, so nobody can say he was *tricked* into buying PB by this
statement.
Anyway, you got to talk to Fred about that further. This is nothing we
need to fight here about, as it is Fred's page.

Ok, my earlier point allready was: PB is what it is, and even if it fits no
standart, it is still a good language.
btw, macros are on the todo list, with a quite high priority, so you can
customize the function names as you want then...

> Atleast there I can make a fucking suggestion (especially in a WISHLIST
> forum) and not have people jump down my thoat about it.

That is not quite true. In this very thread, it was said, that the redim
preserve is actually planned, what more do you want? Ok, there were
some threads, where there was a quite big discussion about whatever
was asked, but actually that is not important. You have made your
request, and i know Fred read's them, so why care what others say?

I want to add, that besides some war-like discussions, this is a quite
helpfull community. no way of a "closed mined self centered elitist
community."

Ok, no matter who started 'throwing mud' at whoever, i like this to end
now.
We are all intelligent beeings, and you should all see, that fighting like
this doesn't lead anywhere.

peace to the world...

Timo

Karbon · Post by **Karbon** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 10:38 pm

Whewt

Akuma no Houkon · Post by **Akuma no Houkon** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 11:35 pm

Ok, my earlier point allready was: PB is what it is, and even if it fits no
standart, it is still a good language.

And I never disagreed with that. Its a very good language without standards, but the false advertisement of "All BASIC Keywords supported" is not very helpfull. It gives the impression that most (atleast SOME) of your code will be able to be copy and pasted into purebasic and compile. Like you can with all other languages that support all basic keywords. Even the keywords the purebasic DOES support, most still require some kind of syntax change, even if it is removing the "then" or "case" from a IF or SELECT structure, or removing the space on End If, I dont think there is a single line of code in any of my many programs that I could actually copy and paste. Even the expressions are not fully compatible. For instance using & in the following

"MyNum: " & Str(MyNumber)

Most people use & rather than +, + is most oft then not, used in math not anything to do with strings. But even in this simplest of things it is not compatible with all the other basic languages or keywords. As said, it doesnt matter its still a good language reguardless, but Fred should either not advertise it as supporting all basic keywords or make it actually support them.

And a nice reference in the help file would be nice, if its someting completly differnt than other basics it would be nice if there were easier references to find them.

That is not quite true. In this very thread, it was said, that the redim
preserve is actually planned, what more do you want?

How about leaving the post at that? Not adding a bunch of extra insultive crap after that? I was happy with the simple answer "on the todo list".

And take with an open mind any suggestion to improve the language, rather than get defensive. I have written extreemly advanced and super fast scripting languages that follow basic syntax, I have had hundreds of users report to me functions, features, and the like that they want and that would make it easier to use. And I have programed in the basic dialect since I first learned how to turn on a computer. Many many years ago. I know PureBasic doesnt want to be another language, and I am not trying to change it. If I was I would make suggestions about how types are declared, and how variables are declared, ".b" rather than "As Byte", etc..., but I dont, atleast they are functional if somewhat differnt. I only make suggestions for improvement, things to add. I dont want to change purebasic, I want to ENHANCE it. Which I am sure you all want to do as well.

Post by **freak** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 11:44 pm

Some topics just go off-topic, i guess that's live in a forum.

Akuma no Houkon · Post by **Akuma no Houkon** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 11:50 pm

freak wrote:Some topics just go off-topic, i guess that's live in a forum.

And that is exactally what makes searching the forum difficult. Even if you know the command your searching for. How many commands have we mentioned here? Anyone searching for these commands will see this topic as well, and in forums MOST topics eventually go offtopic, so searches tend to give such wide results that searching a forum is almost worthless.

LarsG · Post by **LarsG** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:26 am

Just for refference guys:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BASIC

http://dict.die.net/basic/

-Lars

Post by **Rings** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:50 am

I'm a well skilled VB-Pro (also own Powerbasic) and know that there is a gap in the language-dialects between Pure and VB,Powerbasic and lots of others.I have converted a lot of code succesfully from VB (and Powerb)to Pure, with all that silly points that have been written here. For examples:

End If becomes EndIf
&HFF07 becomes $FF07
As Byte becomes .b

and a lot of more.

I have written a small (and crappy) converter which converts Types, Constants and a lot of Code from VB to Pure.Its not perfect, but helps me to avoid silly typings.Remember->Programmers hate that a lot.

@Akuma no Houkon : I agree in a lot of topics youw write.It have taken months for me to understand the whole 'Purebasic-Concept' and language .In these early days i have written these 'converter' .you can find this snippet on the resourcesite (with source of course) .If not ask me.Also I can/would help you to convert the languages if you run in trouble.I'm also hope that macros become true in a next version to make 'my Purebasic' closer to the other languages i use.
just my 2 cents