PureBasic or Q7Basic?

[Mohawk70]

After a quick Google search, it seems Q7Basic is the new version of KBasic ...

[auser]

It's legal status is unclear to me ... DUDE it's Ogre.

I think you got mental issues...

Your answer is yet again an example for that community where lots seems to be wise enough to denigrate others quickly and wonder afterwards. Why do you think I care regarding what you think? If you have to little unaware of what you are talking about then better keep your defamation next time? I'm not talking regarding Ogre but the font "Commonwealth Condensed" that came with the CEGUI implemention of PB (used for Window3D). Never found an information that you even have to include the license-text for CEGUI? Do you know what you may legally do with the font if you use 3D-windows? You just don't care, right? And - btw - you could compile CEGUI with various dependencies as well. For sure you could tell me which one was used for PBs implemention. Could you? Because if you use it then you have to meet the requirements.

But even if we talk regarding Ogre the current PBs link in the helpfile still links to the LGPL but Ogre is not LGPL anymore but more liberal MIT (which is better for you in that case).

[Fred]

Please calm down, that's not because one guy said something harsh than the whole community is like that. I will check the font issue, but really you can use any font with CEGUI, so if it doesn't fit, just pick another one. We are working hard on the 3D side to make it better, 4.60 has bring a lot of new things, and 4.70 will do the same. We are not claiming to have the best 3D game oriented engine ever, but it works, has a lot of features and this on all platforms unlike you said.

[auser]

so if it doesn't fit, just pick another one

I tried already time ago and the sollution was: Replace the commonwealth font with another font but call it yet again same name. So for example including dejavu font but rename it to commonwealth font. Dejavu is way more liberal but I'm not sure if that sollution of renaming a fontfile to another fontname is that smart.

and this on all platforms unlike you said.

I've tried so much times to just run the example codes on mandriva, fedora, debian. Hardware acclerated 3D worked on all of them but I always got already stuck on linux with my PC on the very basics (e.g. trying an PB source example)... so joined the forum read others seems to have similar problems and then fiddled around via coping libraries to somewhere (which is very uncommon for linuxworld). It was just a pain - again and again. I remember I was able to run once that robotic-dude example... then tried to figure a bit with it and even got some issues soon again (I'm pretty sure it worked different and way smarter on windows with the same PB version). So it worked after pain of fiddling somehow. If "it works" as you write why isn't there many more stuff in the 3D showcase? Is there something like that at all? I guess I read first time regarding "Irrlicht3d" in that forum.

[Primoz128]

It's legal status is unclear to me ... DUDE it's Ogre.

I think you got mental issues...

Your answer is yet again an example for that community where lots seems to be wise enough to denigrate others quickly and wonder afterwards. Why do you think I care regarding what you think? If you have to little unaware of what you are talking about then better keep your defamation next time? I'm not talking regarding Ogre but the font "Commonwealth Condensed" that came with the CEGUI implemention of PB (used for Window3D). Never found an information that you even have to include the license-text for CEGUI? Do you know what you may legally do with the font if you use 3D-windows? You just don't care, right? And - btw - you could compile CEGUI with various dependencies as well. For sure you could tell me which one was used for PBs implemention. Could you? Because if you use it then you have to meet the requirements.

But even if we talk regarding Ogre the current PBs link in the helpfile still links to the LGPL but Ogre is not LGPL anymore but more liberal MIT (which is better for you in that case).

I don't care about 3D that's what, i use only 2D as you get things done faster with more fun.

Also did someone drug you ? Why are you talking so much <.<...

[Fred]

so if it doesn't fit, just pick another one

I tried already time ago and the sollution was: Replace the commonwealth font with another font but call it yet again same name. So for example including dejavu font but rename it to commonwealth font. Dejavu is way more liberal but I'm not sure if that sollution of renaming a fontfile to another fontname is that smart.

and this on all platforms unlike you said.

I've tried so much times to just run the example codes on mandriva, fedora, debian. Hardware acclerated 3D worked on all of them but I always got already stuck on linux with my PC on the very basics (e.g. trying an PB source example)... so joined the forum read others seems to have similar problems and then fiddled around via coping libraries to somewhere (which is very uncommon for linuxworld). It was just a pain - again and again. I remember I was able to run once that robotic-dude example... then tried to figure a bit with it and even got some issues soon again (I'm pretty sure it worked different and way smarter on windows with the same PB version). So it worked after pain of fiddling somehow. If "it works" as you write why isn't there many more stuff in the 3D showcase? Is there something like that at all? I guess I read first time regarding "Irrlicht3d" in that forum.

I bet than PureBasic has more an application background than a 3D game background, unlike Blitz3D which was as the name suggest a 3D tool. Also creating something in 3D is way more difficult that another kind of application, as you have to create 3d models, with textures, export them in correct format, etc. Just my 2cts, but I do believe you can actually do something with PB. Try the last stable version on Linux, it should work, we have a dev which was using linux to enhance the 3D engine. If it doesn't feel free to report a bug so we can move forward.

[auser]

I bet than PureBasic has more an application background than a 3D game background, unlike Blitz3D which was as the name suggest a 3D tool.

Hey I never said PB is useless. I would prefer it over QB or RB. I still like and could recommend it... but not for creating 3D stuff. - Blitz3D is not just a "3D tool" but already had all the features I missed in a "Basic" in PB. But that was years ago. Blitz3D is many years old now. It was great when it was created.

Also creating something in 3D is way more difficult that another kind of application, as you have to create 3d models, with textures, export them in correct format, etc.

That's not always true. It's more complicated to create various graphics for a 2D program then modelling once a textured mesh and just use "MoveEntity" afterwards. I agree creating 3D stuff could be difficult - and it was very difficult in PB. In Blitz3D you loaded your mesh and you continued at that step already via throughing it throug your world. It does not really hurt because it supports various fromats and so on. In PB you had not just to export into a not that common *.mesh format (which is not the fault of PB but some advantage but even disadvantage of Ogre) compared to more common formats then *.x, *.obj, *.3ds - but it had to be the right (old) version of it. So it was already lot of time to just search or guess the right version of the *.mesh exporter. I guess that changed with newer version of Ogre that is used now in PB. If then your favourite OS just produces an crash if you start the example it's not that motivating to search an exporter for that OS afterwards as well. If some features are missing you already used in other languages it yet again not that motivating and so on...

but I do believe you can actually do something with PB.

So probably PB-users are the problem that the 3D-showcase is a bit empty? What 3D stuff did you actually do with PB? - That's not meant as offense. I'm pretty sure I would never get that deep into linux without using it serious myself at home (means I needed it every day so I found that glitches and figured out a solution). Did you ever wrote a 3D-game using PB in linux (without finding some Irrlicht3D wrapper thread in that forum )? It's not your job creatign games with PB I guess anyway - seems you are gifted in creating compilers. - But sometimes you are way more motivated to fix stuff when it's annoying enough for yourself because you need it every day. That are just my 2 cents now...

[karmacomposer]

I've tested all the 3D demos - although they lack finesse, they work BLAZING FAST and perfectly over here.

I program in Blitz3D and really - not perfect for making games. Dark Basic/Pro, which I also have, is totally
unuseable for creating games.

Two best 3D engines I bought were S2 and Shiva. Both will be very useful in creating large scale AAA games.
PureBasic seems PERFECT for those smaller, cuter games. We'll see. Games programming is the LEAST amount
of programming I will do, but I do have ideas.

Mike

[xorc1zt]

i am agree with auser. the 3d engine is barely usable do to a full game. for example there is a no way to render a HUD. ogre3d is fully made on a object model, there are classes everywhere for every single thing. Maintaining a C interface alone is reckless. another sad thing is referencing model which add a lot of overhead and the use of procs like xxxID, working directly with the pointers would be faster.

[ultralazor]

As you mention Qt, Purebasic uses native OS calls for windows and gadgets, which I think is a big plus (for us, not for the developers )

Not really, PureBasic doesn't use native OS calls on linux. It uses GTK there instead of Xlib (which would be way more native). It could also use Qt instead.

QT has already shadowed GTK on all platforms, a migration would be cool.

PB is a FASM generator, and produces comparatively stable programs that are native-byte PE with it's own unique memory and struct handling. I use it as a result; because being kewl and doing stuff in C++ costs a lot in production and management for a single developer; something you learn by actually finishing projects and getting userbases(logistics)..

[electrochrisso]

i am agree with auser. the 3d engine is barely usable do to a full game. for example there is a no way to render a HUD. ogre3d is fully made on a object model, there are classes everywhere for every single thing. Maintaining a C interface alone is reckless. another sad thing is referencing model which add a lot of overhead and the use of procs like xxxID, working directly with the pointers would be faster.

So what engine do you use, as far as I can see from the 3d demos, it is very possible to program a full game, no probs, its just a matter of head down and arse up, you are just looking for a very easy and simple solution to create a full on 3d game, why do you think the top 3d game programmers are in high demand, they don't complain about deficiencies, they just get down and find the solution to work their way around problems, not to mention the thousands of hours they spend to create the game.

[marc_256]

Hi,

So what engine do you use, as far as I can see from the 3d demos, it is very possible to program a full game, no probs, its just a matter of head down and arse up, you are just looking for a very easy and simple solution to create a full on 3d game, why do you think the top 3d game programmers are in high demand, they don't complain about deficiencies, they just get down and find the solution to work their way around problems, not to mention the thousands of hours they spend to create the game.

Totally agree with electrochrisso
I'm working for more than 2 years (full time) on my real 3D game and 3D developing programs.
I love PB and the combination with OGRE and BULLET are top.

If you have a problem, find a solution for it, a work around,
you can find all the solutions on this forum. just look, look, look...
and this is not found in 5 seconds
And if you do not find it, ask for it.

Ok ok, there are some stuff who are missing in PB-OGRE, but like Fred told us,
there will come more...

So, I'm a lucky man...

greetings,
marc

[xorc1zt]

So what engine do you use, as far as I can see from the 3d demos, it is very possible to program a full game, no probs, its just a matter of head down and arse up, you are just looking for a very easy and simple solution to create a full on 3d game, why do you think the top 3d game programmers are in high demand, they don't complain about deficiencies, they just get down and find the solution to work their way around problems, not to mention the thousands of hours they spend to create the game.

please feel free to explain me how u added a hud onto the 3d engine and also how u instanced multiple static geometries, last time i checked there was no way to do the first one and the second one produce a crash. since they removed all the ogre3d exports from the 3d engine dll this is nearly impossible to implement it yourself or it would be a huge hack.

[ultralazor]

I will say, ogre is the only real drawback, because of the model formats and the lack of modern tools for them. There is one level tool for ogre formats, and it's nightmarish bad.. might as well say nothing for rigging and animation, topology has to be worked for mesh converters..

defininty needs better format support, ARM w8 and linux support would be cool, maybe android and ios .app compiling via sdk in roadmap

EDIT: I don't think most people here realize how close to abandonware PB is.. The few developers all have jobs and lives which historically speaking, always leads to abandonment of demanding products and projects.. It's proprietary too, so if they don't work nothing get done..

[skywalk]

EDIT: I don't think most people here realize how close to abandonware PB is.. The few developers all have jobs and lives which historically speaking, always leads to abandonment of demanding products and projects.. It's proprietary too, so if they don't work nothing get done..

Doom