Disappointed ? Not any Longer !

[Doctor Watson]

Hello.

I just downloaded and installed the PureBasic 4.41 demo version. I am just an amateur programmer but I have many years of experience with QuickBasic, Visual Basic and more recently RealBasic. So when I try a new programming environment, instead of going through a large number of documentation items the first thing I look for is example code. That is the quickest way to get a feel of the environment. Also, one expects some logic. Here came the first disappointment : a large number of example projects (Sources folder) simply do not work. Errors like "constant not found", "bad parameter" and whatnot keep popping up. How can you expect to attract new users when included examples already don't work. And they should work when a newbie loads them, not after having gone through lots of pages on "how to do this right".
Next, as PureBasic offers a Visual Designer, I tried it. It seems quite straightforward. Correct me if I'm wrong. One places one or more Gadgets in a Window and Visual Designer runs the thing. No problems. To add code or to compile the project you need to open the project created with Visual Designer in the PureBasic editor. Still seems very logical. But then and whatever I try, when I want to run or compile the project with the PureBasic editor, I am presented with 'Deprecated function "CreateGadgetList" used'.
Perhaps someone can shed some light on all of this. I really would like to start with PureBasic, but my first impressions are rather disappointing.

Best regards,

Michel

[blueznl]

I've never tried the demo but try the Survival Guide, it just may help a little (and take away some of the disappointment)...

[Kaeru Gaman]

Welcome, Watson.

PureBasic is a rather rapidly developing Language.

8. Mai 2006 : Version 4.00
1. November 2006 : Version 4.01
18. Dezember 2006 : Version 4.02
4. November 2007 : Version 4.10
23. Mai 2008 : Version 4.20
16. Dezember 2008 : Version 4.30
3. Juni 2009 : Version 4.31
1. Dezember 2009 : Version 4.40
1. Februar 2010 : Version 4.41

the Team is rather small, only a handful of people.

Yes, it doesn't give the best first impression when the examples do not work properly,
maybe that would be a job for some of us old dogs voluteers to take better care of this.
the examples in the Helpfile itself are up-to-date.
Also take into account that many different people approach a new environment in many different ways,
a lot of new customers would even not recognize the problems with some examples in the folders.

the VisualDesigner is generally functional, just not 100% up-to-date.
the message you recieve is just a parser warning, it means no lack of functionallity.


generally, PureBasic is not disappointing.
to me it was less disappointing than VisualBasic, DarkBasic, 3DGameStudio or any other Programming Environment since QuickC3.5 wich I used in the early 90ies.

just give it a chance, depending on what you want to achive you may discover PureBasic to be the handiest tool around.


FYI: I'm a volunteer old dog, I don't earn a penny from this project.

[srod]

If you are disappointed then you are either looking for something else entirely or you just haven't looked deep enough.

[Fluid Byte]

He is absolutely right regarding the examples. I already mentioned this like a year ago. Lot's of examples simply don't work and it feels like an unfinished product. If you want to attract new customers have a working examples! This is no monster task but the very bare basics.

[Trond]

It's bad if the examples don't work. The programming language works, though, the examples are not just up to date.

Which examples don't work for you?

[Fred]

I have checked the demo package, and saw than a resident file wasn't included which breaks lot of examples (as the constant #LF$ isn't found). An automated example-compile script has been added to the main build script avoid this in future version. Thanks for the feedback.

[Doctor Watson]

First of all, srod, I am not THAT disappointed that I would immediately go and look for something else, otherwise I wouldn't bother becoming a member of this forum, would I . And no, I shouldn't go "look deeper first" for answers to my questions as they were indeed founded as it turns out. I'm glad that my remarks already have triggered a response.

Meanwhile I am still struggling to get the hang of the Visual Designer.
Again I put a couple of Gadgets in a window and Visual Designer shows me the result when I run it.
Then, when opened in the Editor, I disabled the code that causes the "Deprecated function" error.

Code: Select all

Procedure Open_Window_0()
  If OpenWindow(#Window_0, 216, 0, 600, 300, "New window ( 0 )",  #PB_Window_SystemMenu | #PB_Window_SizeGadget | #PB_Window_TitleBar )
    ;If CreateGadgetList(WindowID(#Window_0))
      StringGadget(#String_0, 30, 30, 90, 100, "")
      ListViewGadget(#Listview_0, 190, 30, 90, 110)
      
    ;EndIf
  EndIf
EndProcedure

This seems to run, but I don't get the resulting window. I only see in the "execution log" (if that is what it's called) "Executable started", immediately followed by "The program execution has finished".
Is this normal or am I again overlooking something ? Or should I wait until the Visual Designer and the Editor have been "synchronised" again ?
Any help to get me under way will be very welcome and appreciated

Michel

[rsts]

Note very pretty, but it might get you started.

Code: Select all

enumeration
  #window_0
  #string_0
  #listview_0
EndEnumeration
Procedure Open_Window_0()
  If OpenWindow(#Window_0, 216, 0, 600, 300, "New window ( 0 )",  #PB_Window_SystemMenu | #PB_Window_SizeGadget | #PB_Window_TitleBar )
    ;If CreateGadgetList(WindowID(#Window_0))
    StringGadget(#String_0, 30, 30, 90, 100, "")
    ListViewGadget(#Listview_0, 190, 30, 90, 110)
    
    ;EndIf
  EndIf
EndProcedure

open_window_0()
Repeat
  EventID  =WaitWindowEvent()
  MenuID   =EventMenu()
  GadgetID =EventGadget()
  WindowID =EventWindow()
  
  
    until EventID=#PB_Event_CloseWindow
    end

cheers

[Kaeru Gaman]

This seems to run, but I don't get the resulting window. I only see in the "execution log" (if that is what it's called) "Executable started", immediately followed by "The program execution has finished".
Is this normal or am I again overlooking something ?

the VD has a flag "Create Eventloop". if that is not checked, no Eventloop is created, so the window maybe opened but also closed immediately because the execution ends.

also, you don't need to use the VD, you can code the layout manually if you like to.

[Doctor Watson]

Right. I can spot what code Visual Designer fails to pass to the editor. I suppose that is what will have to be added to make it run again as it should.
Meanwhile I can at least use the Visual Designer to set up my screens.

Thanks

Sorry Kaeru, I hadn't viewed your reply yet. I will check the VD settings.
I know it can all be done manually but it's just that coming from RealBasic, I still feel more comfortable with some kind of WYSIWYG.

[srod]

First of all, srod, I am not THAT disappointed that I would immediately go and look for something else, otherwise I wouldn't bother becoming a member of this forum, would I . And no, I shouldn't go "look deeper first" for answers to my questions as they were indeed founded as it turns out. I'm glad that my remarks already have triggered a response...

Well I never suggested that you should go look for something else, I only suggested that if you are disappointed with PB then perhaps you are looking for something else, even if you do not quite know what that something is as yet?

A bunch of misfiring examples shouldn't stop you - especially as many of those same demos are in the help manual and work correctly. There are loads of demo programs on sites like PureArea.net which you can rip apart and tape together again.

The code you posted above kind of confirms that you haven't really looked deeply enough because if you had, you might have noticed that the visual designer has an option (Project --> Project Options) for including an event loop in the generated code, which of course is what your code is missing. No offence intended and I am not blaming you in any way for not realising that you need an event loop here, it takes time to learn a new language, but the original statement regarding being disappointed with PB was yours. I just felt that you hadn't given it enough time or study (or both) and thus I stand by my assertion. Heck, if I don't stand by them then no one else will!

[Doctor Watson]

No worries Srod, things are already on the move ... !
And thanks all for those quick replies. I can hardly keep up typing

[Vera]

Hi Michel,

hunting for examples you quickly come across somehow 'outdated' codes, and that's when the PB-Help\History really comes in handy to find out which commands have come and gone.
And scrolling down to '15. April 2007 : Version 4.00' you'll find a hidden link to major changes which took place between v. 3.94 and v. 4.xx, sorted by libraries.

Well your thread pushed me to do what I long thought about - which is to concentrate all the Help-included examples into a single chm-file, for a quicker overview and inspiration.
So, if you like, here you are: PB-Examples_v441.chm ~ and of course everybody is wellcome to grab it ~
(Mind: not all of them work with the demo-version)

New: PB-Examples_v451.chm inclusive further examples form pb\examples\sources.

lucky achievements ~ Vera

ps: and if your disappointment fades you might crown your thread-title with an [overcome]

edit: alternative browser version: PB-Examples_v441.zip (framed with leftsided index, or frameless via Index.html)

[USCode]

Doc,
I hear ya. I can see how someone first coming to PB wouldn't be impressed based on the code examples or the VD. Especially if you've used products like Delphi or VB, but those products are developed by large teams and/or are much more expensive that PB. However for me, PB's advantages far outweigh it's weaknesses: cross-platform, easy approachable but powerful language, small/fast executables, etc.

If you stick with the examples given in the documentation and avoid VD altogether (code your GUI by hand), you'll be much better off in the long run, IMHO.
I've posted some code here that makes managing gadget resizing much easier: http://www.purebasic.fr/english/viewtop ... 12&t=10218

As others have stated, PB is moving forward at a feverish pace and given the small size of the development team, something has to give. The VD and (non-doc) code examples are low priority and that's fine with me -- I'd rather they spent their valuable time on adding language libraries, maintaining the doc and fixing bugs.

I've noticed that they've been hammering out bugs lately at a feverish pace, I suspect 4.42 will be a very stable release.