Anti Piracy Plan..

Everything else that doesn't fall into one of the other PB categories.
case
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Post by case »

piracy is no good, that's a fact, beside that saying that using a pirated version before buy is acceptable is no good two but in fact it's good to change a cracked version for a legal one , no doubt on that ...

but saying that a pirated copy is a lost sale is imho false.

just try to ask around you about graphics package.

count how many people you know use or only 'have photoshop CS. (not element that can be obtained with bundled hardware)

now, how many of them have leggit copy, my guess is near to zero ( or you only know graphist that works with photoshop and paid for it or have a company that paid it for them)

now, do you really think that if photoshop was not available for free using cracked version these people will still have it ?

so a pirat copy of photoshop is not a lost sale as they will never sell it to this people ...

my guess is that people use cracked photoshop because of

1/ the cost
2/ the fact it's a well know program

people wan't to have the well know program instead of an obcscure paint package that they never listen to.

it's like brands in real life , people wan't to have cool clothes with well know brands, so they buy copys because it's less priced...


and for you're exemple about pure basic
if 100 people are using PureBasic right now, with no intention of ever paying you are basically saying that Fred hasn't lost 100 x $99 in sales
he don't lost 100x99$ that's right there's nothing saying he'll make this money if PB was not available with piracy.there's nothing that prove the oposite view also. we can't be sure, so saying that a pirat software is a lost sale is as a baloney as saying that all pirat version are not a lost sale.

i just said that a copy is not a lost sale, it's just a sale that don't happend, you can't say that this sale otherwise will happend...

maybe the 100 people using a pirat version had buyed it instead if it was not available for free using a cracked version, but it's just "MAYBE". it's not sure!. that's why i said that's it's POTENTIAL lost sales.

on the other hand EA/ubi/ascaron for exemple loses sales from me because i don't buy games using some of the protection shemes they use

i wanted to buy C&C RED alert 3, NFS, Sacred 2, Far Cry2, but i stopped because of the protection they use, this is way more bad , because they LOST a customer That pay with real money, not one that MAY pay and using a cracked version.

this is also something to think before using a protection sheme.

the good side is that instead buying they're products i buyed some other games from companys that care a bit about what is good to do. and indies coders ;)
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Post by Rescator »

Since statistics and estimates are just that, estimates, I'll throw in some imperical facts here:

I briefly tried the PureBasic demo, and after reading these very forums and the cool people, all the code and great community I took a leap of fate and baught it. (I waited a long while though, extra cash is hard to come by).

I used to use Paint Shop Pro and a crack or keygen maybe (can't recall), I no longer do. Now I use Paint.net http://www.getpaint.net/
I guess that actually DOES translate into an "actual lost sale" as A. I did not find PSP worth buying (at that price), and B. I found a cheaper (free in this case) alternative I'm happy with, so they did not loose a sale to piracy but to competition instead. (which is the core of capitalism really)

I use Winamp a lot (free version, the pro version I have no need of).

The rest of my software are either proprietary freeware or opensource freeware, or self made.

The only commercial software I have that I do not own *cough* (this better not bite me in the ass) is Adobe Audition 1.5, I may be lazy and have not found the right alternative out there but I just like this one.
One major issue though, v2 (and the latest being v3) suck, I've tried them and do not like them. v1.5 is no longer sold. (nor v2 as far as I know). I have been trying Audacity but it's still got some way to go in ease of use and abilities but it's getting there.

Oh and a couple years ago I finaly went legit with Windows as well and bought Vista Premium. So Audition 1.5 is my only blemish these days.

As for games on the other hand...I bought Knights Of The old Republic, and Mass Effect, and X3: Reunion, and a bunch of others over the last decade or so. I recently pre-ordered GTA IV PC, and will probably do the same with Fable II and Mass Effect II and III. Not sure about Sims 3 yet.
Of all the games I've played I've probably only bought 1%, of the 99% I did not I wish I had bought 2%, the rest I obviously did not. and 50%+ of those I did not buy I wish I had never played in the first place. and half of those I never finished, and 5% of those either crashes all the time, made no sense, was horribly buggy, or even refused to start or install at all.

A common trait of mine, regardless whether I purchased something or not, if I liked it I will recommend it. "blabla was pretty damn good blablala, you should check it out" I never encourage others to "get it free" as I believe as individuals we all make our own choices, and it is not my place to tell others how to spend their money.

So what does those % amount to? For simplicity sake less use accumulative percentage. So that of the 100% only 3% I found good, and of those I only ended up purchasing 1%, thus a loss of 2%.

If the games had been cheaper I probably would have been able to afford them. (after all, there is a limit to how much "stuff" I can buy in our modern materialistic world that screams "buy buy buy" at us 24/7, it's not like I can print more money myself *sigh I wish*)

So if I was loaded wih money, then I might have ended up buying 100% of my games, but demanded a refund on 90% of them. :roll:
Meaning, for me a developer/publisher could increase my presence as a customer to them by up to 9% if the price is right, and the quality is high.

What worries me the most though... what if the big companies actually DO manage to stamp out "casual" piracy (by trampling over your civil rights), who do they blame then? When they are not reaching their estimated (or rather desired) profit margin! The customers for being "cheap"? *shiver*

There is one form of piracy I do not and will not ever condone. It is what I consider the real piracy, commercial piracy. These are true criminals (per accepted law throu the centuries) who either steal actual physical items or manufacture physical items. (or in the modern day duplicate digitally) and then sell those for profit, those are actual sales7transactions taking place, a customer gets a fake or inferior product. And THAT is a "real" loss of profit for the original developer/publisher.

I may not be a saint, and I may be a idealist, but as Google have thir slogan Don't be Evil. I wish that various companies adopted the slogan Don't Be Greedy! I never liked the idea of a programmer having to walk to work while the CEO drives a high-end Mercedes or Ferrari to work or has a private jet.

And just to prove I'm not ignorant to both sides, I have had one of my own software pirated. SerialPrefs a preferences program for controlling the serial port on the Amiga way back. It was Shareware, low number of sales sadly. And one day I stumble on a pirated copy, a cracked one none the less. Yeah I got angry, but it wasn't like anyone was making money on it by selling it and taking the profit so I didn't go insane with rage.

What did piss me off though was that it was cracked, rather than a keygen having been made. Why so? Because if they only had made a keygen then users would have ben able to get the program from official sources. (my site and Aminet) thereby reducing the risk of viruses, and not being stuck with a really buggy version etc. I created a nice serial key system. (not too easy but not so hard that a seasoned keygen maker could not make one) I'm working one some programs that in the future will have a serial number system, not really hard and not too easy, easier than the one I used for that old amiga program though, maybe this time they'll just make a keygen and not release a cracked copy. *sigh*

Why? because users using a keygen for a serial (valid in the program but not registered in my serverside database nor useable on the site) can potentially be converted into future sales and I hopefully avoid infested cracked copies floating around too much. Cracked copied can usually never be turned into potential sales. But fake serials can

Tip! If it's shareware with a nag popup window, and a valid (but not real) serial turns off the nag, but you are able to notify the program (maybe during a version check with the server or similar) then do not turn the nag back on or anything like that, instead reduce it to a weekly nag or similar, that may be not so annoying that they find it annoying, and once in a while, after a few months, you might end up with a new customer, especially if being a real customer has more benefits than one who as a fake serial. ;)

@utopiomania: I hope this brings this thread back on topic and your original Q and hopefully you are left with some more insight into this whole "mess". *laughs*
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Post by utopiomania »

Rescator wrote:
@utopiomania: I hope this brings this thread back on topic and your original Q and hopefully you are left with some more insight into this whole "mess". *laughs
Thanks! I don't have a problem with any of this :) On the contrary, I try to learn from it.

pdwyer wrote:
I believe basic security at a cheap cost that doesn't inconvenience users is sufficient
Roger that! :)
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Post by SunBeam »

Post facts, not words. Show me that uncrackable product everyone fears..

You realize that even when paying attention to your customers, there are people who BUY the product for a public release. Then there are those who buy it for internal use. And then there's those who use internal team releases to bundle up a public release (already patched, cracked, online check skipped, everything on it, plus custom protected and virtualized against the keen eyes - "let's see what they cracked in my program; o shi, can't understand a thing from it"). The "tools" you use to protect your work usually end up biting your asses ;-)

Oh, and tons amounts of respect for all the teams out there. We respect each other for being bold and eager to learn more and more in this 'world' of bits. Reversing a target isn't enough. Reversing a protection may get you spinning, but the HUNGER never stops.

Sun, out..
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Post by Rescator »

SunBeam wrote:Post facts, not words. Show me that uncrackable product everyone fears..
I am a bit unsure of which post you are responding to here.
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Post by devski »

in my country, people do not buy software/services online because of HIGH exchange rates. stuff to be bought online is priced in us $, thats all fine for those earning dollars. but if your earning in local currency and going to convert it to $ its just too much. only the big corps like intel or microsoft adjust their pricing. still anything from ithe us/europe is tooo expensive. on the other hand, if you have $$ stuff is cheap here :)
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Post by JCV »

I recently read a topic about Ubisoft violating its own licenses. :lol:

http://72.14.235.132/search?q=cache:dhj ... /14843.cfm

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Post by pdwyer »

@devski: Where?
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Post by SunBeam »

@JCV: Ubi used a quick solution to meet customers' demand till they released an official version. The fact that they denied it shows how hypocritical sometimes people can be. To most of us, it doesn't matter if it's Ubisoft or Microsoft - the name or reputation doesn't matter when you are caught with such lame attempts. It takes only one such situation to lose respect - "wow, to think Ubisoft did this"..

@Rescator: Am talking about the whole thread, the whole ideas shown up front here. I've seen these countless times and so far, they haven't stopped any reverser from doing his "work". I can't really call it WORK, since it's more like a hobby - you like assembly (ia32) -> you learn to code in ASM -> you start debugging to check for errors and see code flow in your own app -> you like this and make it a hobby, where coding becomes obsolete and you focus more and more on reversing or playing with other people's code (in a debugger). Subsequently, you develop an affinity for this and evolve your "senses" (that's how reversers blow up easy targets).

Most coders don't understand that reversers are not hunting them down as they think, they are just feeding their hunger for knowledge. No need to take it personal, it doesn't matter who you are - once your software is out there in the open and gets known, it will certainly make ripples :-) Then comes the reverser - "let's see what's so special about it that everyone praises it" - and that's about it..

There would be more to talk about - for each IDEA posted in this thread, I can show you a way around it :-)
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Post by LaFarge »

Hehe, i must say i really had tons of laughs reading this thread. I agreed with some ppl and i could laugh for some all day long...

Believe it or not, authors of commercial appz constantly neglect the protection system for their apps... This is common pitfall when coding an app. Like my friend SunBeam said, we HAVE seened this 1000's of times, and we CAN bypass all of nowadays protections, DEAL WITH IT!

U cant make perfect protection, and as someone said on this thread, concentrate on damage control and how u will deal with it once your app gets ripped apart...

Also, as SunBeam suggested, give us a sample of your work protected with your famous CodeVirtualizer and see how fast u will get your protection upside down. Stop beign ignorant and learn from this thread... As u can see, ppl here tried their best in helping u out, and most of them said how u CANT deal with crackers and how u should concentrate more to your programming and QUALLITY of the product youre making...

"Code Virtualizer", damn that was a good joke today....

No offence,

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Post by PB »

> LaFarge
> New User
> Joined: 06 Dec 2008
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> Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008
> i must say i really had tons of laughs reading this thread

I'll bet a million dollars that you and SunBeam are regular users
here just posting anonymously. :lol:
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Post by SunBeam »

^ What would be the point, the challenge? Do we see any products here worth the fuzz? Was just an informal join-in, to state our points of view regarding this thread. Ask an admin to track us down, if you feel like we're "regular" folks ;-)
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Post by SFSxOI »

The best anti-piracy plan in my opinion is to simply not let the users have anything installed on the computer and no physical medium at all. Thats what one of the aims of cloud computing is supposed to be. Everything booted from and read from the cloud, even the OS in the future, with everything running in the cloud space and not the client space.

The second best anti-piracy plan is to simply not worry about it. HuH? (some people are thinking right now "is SFSxOI crazy!" )

Think about it, if you create something someone will use, it doesn't matter what methods you use to protect it. Given the opportunity, time, knowledge, skill, and resources, that is nothing physical or virtual mankind can create that mankind can't either un-create, break, crack, tear down, ignore, or circumvent in some way. All any anti-piracy scheme can hope to do is delay and for software, if its worth someones time to try and crack it then its going to be cracked and pirated plain and simple.

As for lost sales due to piracy; All these figures thrown around by these companies about how much pirating costs them is pure rubbish. None of them have ever been able to prove these figures to any dis-interested third party accountability and they refuse to release the basis upon which these figures are based. How these figures were arrived at, to go back to the beginning and discover how, we need to follow a kind of convoluted thread. The beginnings were with a magazine article in 1993 that had nothing to do at all with software piracy (IP theft) and the willingness of the industry to present incorrect information and manipulate the socio-economic-government environment for their own greed using what could be called a non-existant problem. This is how it happened;

(NOTE: The use of the term "software industry" or "industry" below also includes the entertainment industry as it relates to Intellectual Property. What i've written here is in relation to the U.S.)

There is a figure often thrown around in the $200 to $250 billion range. According to an FBI spokesperson Catherine Milhoan, the figure "was derived through our coordination with industry, trade associations, rights holders, and other law enforcement agencies" at a 2002 confab about intellectual property. But neither the Bureau nor the National Intellectual Property Rights Coordination Center could find, or reference, any record of how that number was arrived at. That figure dates back to 1993 and was actually derived from a short Forbes magazine article on merchandise counterfeiting, in which the reader is informed that "counterfeit merchandise" is "a $200 billion enterprise worldwide and growing faster than many of the industries it's preying on." No further source is given and that figure was only a very general and broad guess for the global effect. The article is talking about physical merchandise like purses and clothing knock offs for example, it does not include anything about software and does not even consider it, the article it wasn't about pirating software and only talked about physical merchandise like I mentioned above. The article appeared in the October 25, 1993 issue of Forbes magazine, an official citation given to the government is here from 1995: http://judiciary.house.gov/Legacy/475.htm and its clear from that government link and the magazine article that the items are not software (Intellectual Property (IP) ), the figures the article talks about is for the entire global market for those physical knock-off type items. But how did this Forbes magazine figure get translated into a loss due to software piracy when the article wasn't even about software piracy to begin with?

At the FBI conferance in 2002 the National Intellectual Property Rights Coordination Center was asked for a figure for software piracy, they could not provide one but one enterprising soul dug up the Forbes article and mistook the figure presented in the article as to include software also when it didn't and also failed to realize the figure in the article was a very gross over-estimation. The enterprising soul that dug up the article was a customs agent assigned to do the research but only had experience with merchandise counterfeiting and not IP theft, the person simply went to the area where he had the most experience, and needing to produce something that everyone could reference, incorrectly associated the magazine article with IP. So...the National Intellectual Property Rights Coordination Center gave the figure guess of "$200 to $250 billion range" to the FBI using the article as the basis and the FBI quoted it as fact in their reports and documents that the "$200 to $250 billion range" was for software piracy. the rest of the software industry read that FBI report and said "See, its official, the government says so, piracy costs us in the $200 to $250 billion range each year", and thats how that figure was arrived at. And even today thats exactly the figure used by the software industry lobby efforts in Washington. The figure in the article never had anything to do with software or IP at all, was just an imaginative guess for merchandise counterfitting based upon what the article preceived as a global effect and was not a figure for the U.S. alone, but it became the official "$200 to $250 billion range each year" for software piracy in the U.S. Although software piracy certainly existed in some form before this FBI confab in 2002, it was not until that point where the National Intellectual Property Rights Coordination Center gave that figure, incorrectly based on the Forbes article, that piracy officially existed as an ecomonic or profit threat. In effect, due to the blunder by the National Intellectual Property Rights Coordination Center, the issue of piracy was not even a blip on the software industries radar in terms of profit until that point. Piracy was not "affecting" profit until that point even though prior to that point there had been some efforts by the software industry to link piracy with theft but the software industry had never seriously even considered the profit angle for the most part simply because piracy had no effect on their profit they knew about. The only reason the industry until that point had done any study with piracy involving profit or loss was because they were trying to find out if the 'business model' of piracy could be used to increase their own profits. Thus the piracy problem didn't really become a profit/economic problem until that FBI confab in 2002. It might have been a theft problem before that, and the industry might have complained before that about piracy affecting their profits in some way, but there was never any figure before that which showed any profit loss at all recorded on the books of any part of the software industry. In the first quarter of 2003 the very first figures for software loss due to piracy started appearing on the books of big content and every one of them referenced the FBI report as a reason for their woes. A new corporate dumping ground and hiding place for mismanagement, waste, and fraud, and unreported profit, was created in the books and could now be used as a means to actually hide profit by disguising it as a loss, and all now officially referenced and excused by the U.S. Government thru the FBI report. So in effect that "$200 to $250 billion range' figure given to the FBI by the National Intellectual Property Rights Coordination Center had the effect of actually creating a non-taxable, and even a tax write off (because its listed as a loss), profit for the software industry in the "$200 to $250 billion range', with the tax payers actually loosing money because the taxes from these now hidden profits would not make it into the economy. The industry had been wanting something like this but could never produce any facts or reasons to support it because none existed and would have never dreamed this up by their selves. The industry had pushed the government for a few years to get everyone together so they could discuss the "issue' of beefing up U.S. laws to protect IP from theft and prosecute the offenders, but when the FBI came to the same "no facts" wall and needed a reason or facts to further enforcement against IP theft they turned to the industry, and the industry with not being able to produce any facts or figures incorrectly put forth the Forbes magazine article figure again siding with the National Intellectual Property Rights Coordination Center and said that "IP piracy costs us in the $200 to $250 billion range annually and the National Intellectual Property Rights Coordination Center says so" and at that point piracy became about profit for the industry its self. When the FBI in the 2002 confab asked for a figure, they were not asking for a dollar figure for loss they were asking for a figure for amounts of software pirated, the National Intellectual Property Rights Coordination Center turned the question around into a "whats the profit loss effect of piracy" question and gave the figure, now backed up by the industry, and thus shifted the FBI's focus in the meeting on 'protecting IP and persecuting the offenders/infringers and actually fighting crime' to a 'protecting the profit of the big content software industry' focus. The FBI had been earnestly looking for figures on the amount of software actually pirated for a few years so they could justify asking for funding to further enforcement against the offenders but the software industry could never give them the figures they requested, they saw this 2002 conference as their chance to do some good in this area. Unfortunately the National Intellectual Property Rights Coordination Center was able to take the lead in this from the FBI by using a magazine article. And you know the strange part in this, the National Intellectual Property Rights Coordination Center is a government agency (part of U.S. Customs and Immigration) (http://www.ice.gov/pi/cornerstone/ipr/) that before 2001 had been actually sucessful in starting to crack down on infringers in the cyber-world of the internet in the form of the FBI's cyber crime division. After they came under control of the Department of Homeland Security their focus was shifted from IP to join U.S Customs which is (as their web page puts it) "As the largest investigative arm of the Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) plays a leading role in targeting criminal organizations responsible for producing, smuggling and distributing counterfeit products. Some of these products, such as pharmaceuticals and counterfeit merchandise, are protected by Intellectual Property Rights (IPR). " In other words if its an actual physical item like a CD or DVD then they will do something maybe, the problem with this is almost 90% of IP infringement takes place in the cyber-world of the internet. What this in effect does is only account for infringement of IP only when an actual physical product is directly counterfitted and ignores the majority of IP infringement via the internet. To date there has not been one, or even collectively, significate find of IP physical material found entering, leaving, or produced in, the U.S. that accounts criminally for even 1% of the "$200 to $250 billion range", and a once promising agency effort that could have actually had a chance to fight piracy on a broad scale basis (the FBI) saw their efforts diluted into nothing.

When people started questioning the figure (which suprisingly was the FBI joined by a few software companies) the U.S. International Trade Commission (ITC) at last produced a (supposedly) reputable study yielding a definite figure for the cost of piracy to the U.S. economy: $60 billion annually. The figure was flawed. The number the ITC actually came up with, based on a survey of several hundred business selected for their likely reliance on IP for revenue, was $23.8 billion—the estimated losses to their respondents. That number was based on industry estimates that the authors of the study noted "could admittedly be biased and self-serving," since the firms had every incentive to paint the situation in the most dire terms as a means of spurring government action. But the figures at least appeared to be consistent and reasonable, both internally and across sectors, almost. There was a problem with the report, the ITC was not calculating losses from IP "theft," but rather "inadequate protection" of intellectual property. And "inadequate protection" was interpreted to mean protection falling short of the level provided by U.S. law. Even this report wasn't about IP theft, it was about inadequate protection by U.S. laws, yet DoH! here we have another report used by the software industry to support their stance. You would have thought that someone would have seen the obvious that all at once the cost of piracy fell from a FBI and National Intellectual Property Rights Coordination Center figure of "$200 to $250 billion range" annually to $60 billion annually and that the actual figure in the report was $23.8 billion, even as the software industry claimed that piracy was increasing at an astounding rate and the industry was blaming its woes on piracy. The software industry certainly read the report, its seems they were maybe the only ones and the software industry had found its self a new scape goat.

You would think that someone would actually research and read these things and understand what they are about and how these figures came about wouldn't you? Well, thats exactly what the software industry did not want to happen. They were slick about it, they did the research and knew what they were actually saying but they wern't going to say a word about it because if they played this right they could move into a position where they would be free of government intervention in their industry leaving them free to charge what they wanted and to invade a persons computer to control (with DRM still in the future then but present now) what they see and use and be able to move to a rent based model instead of the seller-buyer-ownership model they operated on. Think about it, the industry certainly did, they would no longer just sell the CD or DVD with the content, they could sell it, get the original price, then use DRM to "manage" the content so they could start charging on a per use basis, and they could justify it all by saying that piracy made them do it. This would not only increase revenues for them in the (then) future (as its beginning to now) but allow them a captive audience as well. The software industry, using these reports and not disclosing what they knew, started a massive lobby campaign in 2002 (that still continues today) to have the government support that piracy actually is a danger to the U.S. economy. And the government believing them to be the subject matter experts, and being backed up by the governments own reports, believed them and started giving them what they wanted. In other words, the software industry actually turned piracy into a future multi billion dollar revenue stream for them where none existed before, and all supported and protected by the U.S. Government and paid for by the tax payer. Using the power of the lobby, and the piracy figures in the reports, and inducing fear that piracy was rampant, one of their most recent advances was having the government change the Department of Justice (DOJ) focus on prosecuting crime to include prosecuting infringment as a crime (which up until this point was prosecuted as a civil case in federal courts in most cases and most notably with entertainment item infringement) and the tax payer pays for it and the software industry doesn't pay a dime, where as before the industry had to pony up the cost of attorney's and fees or costs. Prosecuting infringement as a crime also removes the possibility of the industry being counter sued (like before) and paying awards if they lost (like before). This move also means that the industry is still free to pursue a civil suit against the alledged infringer while the DOJ procedings are still on going and the alledged infringers capability of defense is also reduced at the same time by being burdened with decreasing financial capability to mount a defense on two fronts at the same time. This particular move with the DOJ in effect gave the software industry a defacto status as an an official government agency by having the DOJ at its beck and call.

Even knowing the figures are not right and based on something completely un-related to software and its piracy, the industry still throws around the "$200 to $250 billion range" as if it were the avenging sword of God making every effort to look like a victim. Suprisingly and strangely enough a few companies don't use this tactic like a well know operating system producer and a well known portable document software producer for example who choose to point out that piracy is actually theft (which it is) rather then base their own IP protection and anti-piracy efforts on a falsehood (and in 2002 it was these two who stood up with the FBI to question the figures and pointed out they were't true, but it was too late as their voices were drowned out by the majority who had a greedier view in mind). The software industry still uses it but they go further by adding to and subtracting from (with more adding then subtracting) the figure as the mood strikes them and depending on how much attention and money they want to get from government and if they want to raise prices or not. They refuse to let anyone see the records on the matter and none of their figures have ever been verified or proven in accuracy. In terms of raising prices, why is this figure important? Its important because the government tracks price increases accross industries, even the software industry. When the government sees sudden un-explained price increases it looks at that sector more closely to see if the consumer is being burdened improperly or un-necessarily or gouged on prices. With an official report now from the FBI, an agency of the U.S. Government, the software industry (the big companies) has been able to increase prices on software items as they wanted to without scrutinity from the government because they point to the reports and say "See, piracy is killing us, so we need to increase prices to make up the difference."

Lost sales? No I don't think so, you can't lose something you never had to begin with. If you have 10 items on a shelf, and you sell 5, you got sales for 5, instead what the software industry is doing is counting the 5 that didn't sale yet and calling it a loss due to piracy and adding that back to their already made up figures. Now put that together with the "$200 to $250 billion range" figure and the FBI report and you get "Our products on the shelf aren't selling and we are loosing $200 to $250 billion a year as a result of piracy, the governments own FBI report says so", and thats what the industry lobby groups tell the Washington crowd. And thats where the "lost sales due to piracy" myth comes in and is converted to the "truth and fact" that never was.

So you want to know why DRM came to be? I'll save that for another time, but it did not come about as a method to protect anything.

So what effect does piracy have? It enables the software industry to lobby for more regulations and enforcement (even if they are lying about it) and justifies them raising prices, it helps provide a reason the industry can use to write off profits as a loss and hide profits disguised as a loss, and it helps the industry get protection from the U.S. government, and it furthers the industry agenda of having a captive audience and more control for profit. Pretty neat huh. But in the end it comes back to, and hurts, the individual in terms of increased prices or increased taxes to pay for the enforcement, and lost taxes for the economy (because of the written off loss which is really profit), and it wasn't even at fault to begin with. So it could be more correctly said that the excuse of piracy manipulated by big content software industry is what has the effect. When someone torrents a $12 album or $50 game or other software that they would have otherwise purchased, the industry loses that money in the sense that its money they didn't get but its also money they never had. But that doesn't mean the money has magically vanished from the economy somewhere, and thats what the industry wants everyone to believe, that the money has vanished from and thus affected the economy. The money hasn't vanished from the economy because that money wasn't there to begin with. Is piracy wrong? yes, I believe its theft and is wrong and contray to the tone of what i've written I am not advocating piracy, or saying that piracy does not exist because it does exist. Its the software industry (the big companies, mostly entertainment and luxury software or IP items like games, music, movies) intentions which I think are or will do (and have done) more harm to the consumer then any piracy could ever do. So in the end, who is the real pirate...the software industry, or that person out there downloading something?
Last edited by SFSxOI on Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
SunBeam
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Post by SunBeam »

You're confusing us here :-) We're not "pirates" and we don't make profit from what we reverse. We just gain knowledge through figuring out ways to defeat our task ;-) To be honest, I doubt any freelancer made any profit from his/her work - am talking about the web groups. And please tell me you're not pissed we do this for "free" :) I'd laugh my pants off..
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Demivec
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Post by Demivec »

SunBeam wrote:You're confusing us here :-) We're not "pirates" and we don't make profit from what we reverse. We just gain knowledge through figuring out ways to defeat our task ;-) To be honest, I doubt any freelancer made any profit from his/her work - am talking about the web groups. And please tell me you're not pissed we do this for "free" :) I'd laugh my pants off..
Are you saying you're part of the "honest" trade of cracking program protection? Interesting concept...maybe you should call yourself a "piracy scientist". :wink:

It doesn't matter what your intent is, the fruit of your actions are that you are doing something contrary to the purchase agreement of the software and then making the now unprotected software available to individuals who didn't pay for it by. It is comparable to going into a street market, purchasing an item from a street vendor, then taking an armful of unpurchased merchandise from the vendor's cart, running into a park and then leaving the merchandise on the ground with a sign saying "take what you want for free." Sound's so dreant when you put it that way.

Troublesome, what trade were these studies helping you to preparing for? :twisted:


Note: these comments are not to be taken as a vote of support for all licensing agreements or the fees charged for the same. They are to be taken in light of what agreements currently exist.
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