OK for my game I have figured out a decently foolproof way to make sure the software is installed on only 1 machine.
basically
Windows 98 may have issues with it... But I no longer support Win98 so I am OK with that.
The registration process involves the machine fingerprint.
Is it a bad idea? I mean I don't really mind if someone buys it and installs it on ALL the personally owned computers in the house... deleting it if something is sold!
But lets fact it... that won't happen much... it would be installed for friends and buddies and buddies of friends (assuming anyone wanted it that way!)
SO I suppose I will have to implement it in general.
It isn't like I planned to charge $99.99 for my game... $9.99 is what I figure... cheap enough so that anyone that wants a copy can buy it.
ALSO
If the game is unregistered you can still play forever for free... you can't play above level 3 without having to restart the game but...
Thats it!
SO is it BAD?
I have been unemployed for almost a year and the economy does not look like it will improve soon! I have to make some money!
Is it bad DRM?
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Rook Zimbabwe
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I don't think its a bad idea at all.
I mean if you plan to try to make some money with it you have to have something in place to encourage people to buy it rather than steal it.
Just remember that a lock only keeps an honest person honest, a thief who's decided to steal it will find a way no matter what.
The one downside to hardware locking is that it can increase the support load as people upgrade or buy new computers or have to replace something that has failed.
And I feel for you, with the economy the way it is, now is not a good time to be unemployed. I suspect that for a while the only jobs that will be available are to replace people either leaving or retiring and many companies may decide not to replace them unless their position is considered essential to the business.
I mean if you plan to try to make some money with it you have to have something in place to encourage people to buy it rather than steal it.
Just remember that a lock only keeps an honest person honest, a thief who's decided to steal it will find a way no matter what.
The one downside to hardware locking is that it can increase the support load as people upgrade or buy new computers or have to replace something that has failed.
And I feel for you, with the economy the way it is, now is not a good time to be unemployed. I suspect that for a while the only jobs that will be available are to replace people either leaving or retiring and many companies may decide not to replace them unless their position is considered essential to the business.
drm is actualy a big problem
it's imho a bad idea, i change regulary my hardware, having something tied to my computer hardware upset me a lot, i'm now not buying drm-ed games
i prefer using download platforms like steam or stardock's impulse than having drm crap on my pc.
these time a lot of people are tired by the protection shemes actualy used.
anyway the game might be cracked if it worth be played so the one who don"t wan't pay will not and will play the game.
also think as a customer, will you buy something that soon or later will be unuseable because of his protection sheme ?
the gaming industry lock everything, but pirats have the keys so the only one that are harmed are the people who buy from you, they also see they're friends with the pirated version that are hassle free . what will they do the next time you sell a game ?
it's imho a bad idea, i change regulary my hardware, having something tied to my computer hardware upset me a lot, i'm now not buying drm-ed games
i prefer using download platforms like steam or stardock's impulse than having drm crap on my pc.
these time a lot of people are tired by the protection shemes actualy used.
anyway the game might be cracked if it worth be played so the one who don"t wan't pay will not and will play the game.
also think as a customer, will you buy something that soon or later will be unuseable because of his protection sheme ?
the gaming industry lock everything, but pirats have the keys so the only one that are harmed are the people who buy from you, they also see they're friends with the pirated version that are hassle free . what will they do the next time you sell a game ?
Re: Is it bad DRM?
Have you considered a "feelie" instead?
When I upgrade or rebuild my system I expect the software I have purchased to work without having to contact the vendor. If a machine fingerprint was likely to get in the way then I probably wouldn't buy it unless there was no competing software package that could do what this one did. (I have only one software package that uses a fingerprint and it serves it's purpose but if another company brings out a package for the same price I would purchase again to get rid of this feature).
If it does require going back to the vendor I expect to open a firewall once, have it call home and figure itself out and then it's done with me doing nothing. I don't really like that either though as it means I own the software only as long as the vender has active license servers for the product. (ie you bought a service not software)
shareware, crippleware, nagware, license keys I'm fine with. CD-in-the-drive I can put up with. But that's about it.
If it does require going back to the vendor I expect to open a firewall once, have it call home and figure itself out and then it's done with me doing nothing. I don't really like that either though as it means I own the software only as long as the vender has active license servers for the product. (ie you bought a service not software)
shareware, crippleware, nagware, license keys I'm fine with. CD-in-the-drive I can put up with. But that's about it.
Paul Dwyer
“In nature, it’s not the strongest nor the most intelligent who survives. It’s the most adaptable to change” - Charles Darwin
“If you can't explain it to a six-year old you really don't understand it yourself.” - Albert Einstein
“In nature, it’s not the strongest nor the most intelligent who survives. It’s the most adaptable to change” - Charles Darwin
“If you can't explain it to a six-year old you really don't understand it yourself.” - Albert Einstein
Hmmm... I think the solution may be as simple as something like Steam:
One login, one player, multiple machines with multiple installs.
Only one login can play the same game at a time.
This would allow say three pc's in one house with three different people: Papa Bear, Mama Bear and Baby Bear all having different game style tastes all being able to play their own games on one login:
Papa Bear is playing "LA Bear Chomp".
Mama Bear is playing "Bearly Fit"
Baby Bear is playing "Bear World Domination"
Each time they launch a game then it checks to see if you are already playing that game, if you are then it kicks you out, if not, then hey carry on.
The downside is that an Internet connection would be required to verify if you can play or not. This would always be a downside, but you could say "if no internet connection is available, allow to work for the next 5-10 launches before forcing a check again."
Would a system like Steam that allowed any developer to publish their work safely without DRM in be a good idea?
One login, one player, multiple machines with multiple installs.
Only one login can play the same game at a time.
This would allow say three pc's in one house with three different people: Papa Bear, Mama Bear and Baby Bear all having different game style tastes all being able to play their own games on one login:
Papa Bear is playing "LA Bear Chomp".
Mama Bear is playing "Bearly Fit"
Baby Bear is playing "Bear World Domination"
Each time they launch a game then it checks to see if you are already playing that game, if you are then it kicks you out, if not, then hey carry on.
The downside is that an Internet connection would be required to verify if you can play or not. This would always be a downside, but you could say "if no internet connection is available, allow to work for the next 5-10 launches before forcing a check again."
Would a system like Steam that allowed any developer to publish their work safely without DRM in be a good idea?
Whether you like it or not, Steam and Impulse are also DRM systems. Sure they have other capabilities like content delivery and/or software distribution, but at their core they are a DRM system.
The one big difference is that with systems like SecuROM and ActiveMark where only one online activation is needed, with Steam and Impluse the game has to be activated every time you run it.
And just like with limited activations, should Valve or Stardock go out of business, the software you purchased through Steam or Impulse will no longer work since there will be no server for them to contact to verify you can run the game.
So in reality, I see no real difference between Steam, Impluse, SecuROM, and many other DRM systems out there.
Exceptions are ones like Armadillo, Execryptor, AsProtect, WinLincense and others that just use a registration key that is not checked online. This also includes systems like StarForce, SafeDisc, and SecuROM that do disc checks.
Because there is no on line check you'll still be able to use your software even if the company goes out of business and their servers are shutdown.
The one big difference is that with systems like SecuROM and ActiveMark where only one online activation is needed, with Steam and Impluse the game has to be activated every time you run it.
And just like with limited activations, should Valve or Stardock go out of business, the software you purchased through Steam or Impulse will no longer work since there will be no server for them to contact to verify you can run the game.
So in reality, I see no real difference between Steam, Impluse, SecuROM, and many other DRM systems out there.
Exceptions are ones like Armadillo, Execryptor, AsProtect, WinLincense and others that just use a registration key that is not checked online. This also includes systems like StarForce, SafeDisc, and SecuROM that do disc checks.
Because there is no on line check you'll still be able to use your software even if the company goes out of business and their servers are shutdown.
No, Tipperton is correct, it is a form of DRM, as is Steam. You just have to ask the question:
After getting it, can I run this game/software without Steam/Impulse/Other DRM?
If the answer is "no" then it is most definitely a DRM system.
The question that needs to be asked is "is there an acceptable DRM system?"
To me, Steam/Impulse is an acceptable one - it doesn't restrict my usage, and I never resell, only replay a year or two later
The downside is that if Steam gets shut down, then what? I did read a long time ago that Valve promised to open all the games up that people own if they ever did shut down Steam, but as they look like they won't be shutting down any time soon, I don't think that will be put to the test.
After getting it, can I run this game/software without Steam/Impulse/Other DRM?
If the answer is "no" then it is most definitely a DRM system.
The question that needs to be asked is "is there an acceptable DRM system?"
To me, Steam/Impulse is an acceptable one - it doesn't restrict my usage, and I never resell, only replay a year or two later
The downside is that if Steam gets shut down, then what? I did read a long time ago that Valve promised to open all the games up that people own if they ever did shut down Steam, but as they look like they won't be shutting down any time soon, I don't think that will be put to the test.
There's the misconception that everybody uses. They blame restrictions such as those found in Spore and Bioshock (when it was released) on the DRM system, which is wrong.Foz wrote:The question that needs to be asked is "is there an acceptable DRM system?"
To me, Steam/Impulse is an acceptable one - it doesn't restrict my usage, and I never resell, only replay a year or two later
Any good DRM system is going to be quite flexible giving the users many options for how they want to define the protected program's licensing. To this end SecuROM could easily be configured to be as non-restrictive as Steam or Impulse and by the same token, Steam or Impulse could easily be configured to be as restrictive as the policies in place for Spore and others.
So the answer is: "Any and all DRM systems are acceptable." What can be unacceptable is how a company (such as EA) uses it.
So if you have an issue with DRM restrictions in a program, blame the company that sells the program, not the DRM system they use.
The different between the systems is quite fundamental: one restricts the number of installs (SecuROM), the other restricts the number of users using it (Steam).
Personally for me, I prefer not to be restricted on installs given the amount of changes I make to my system - reinstalls, hardware changes, etc.
I also prefer to have a "working" system and a "tinker" system, when the "tinker" system becomes stable, it switches to being the new "working" system and the old working system becomes the new tinker system.. This process does include many many tweaks and changes, and of course installs. I can only boot one partition up at a time, so restrict me on users not on installs.
Personally for me, I prefer not to be restricted on installs given the amount of changes I make to my system - reinstalls, hardware changes, etc.
I also prefer to have a "working" system and a "tinker" system, when the "tinker" system becomes stable, it switches to being the new "working" system and the old working system becomes the new tinker system.. This process does include many many tweaks and changes, and of course installs. I can only boot one partition up at a time, so restrict me on users not on installs.
How does it not work as advertised? If you are referring to cracks, nothing is uncrackable. Any company that claims their DRM system is uncrackable or will eliminate piracy is lieing to you.Trond wrote:Even if the DRM system does not work as advertised???
Wrong! AGAIN!Foz wrote:The different between the systems is quite fundamental: one restricts the number of installs (SecuROM), the other restricts the number of users using it (Steam).
Steam could very easily be configured to only allow X number of install (or more properly, activations). It doesn't only because Valve (the company, not the DRM) chooses not to use that model.
SecuROM can allow an unlimited number of activations, it doesn't because EA and 2K Games (the company, not the DRM) choose to put limits on the number of activations.
If it is beyond your mental capacity to understand that DRM programs are only following the instructions given to them by the companies using them. Then maybe you should just "get out of the game".
Is it really that hard to understand that DRM software is simply following the instructions given to it by its user?
SecuROM is a CD/DVD copy protection product. Nothing more, nothing less. The way that it is used is commonly a limited number of activations of that copy protection.
Steam does not work like that, it models on restricting useage at the same time.
I do not argue that Steam could be changed to limit installs. I do not argue that SecuROM could allow unlimited installs. They are programs and programs can be changed to whatever is required.
My point is how they are currently being used: given a choice of DRM protection, I would much rather be restricted by only allowing myself access to that product, rather than being restricted by a limited number of activations.
I mearly used the point that people know of SecuROM and the limited number of activations that is being used and that Steam is limited by who is using it. Of course that can be changed in the future, but that is how it is used at this moment in time.
Steam does not work like that, it models on restricting useage at the same time.
I do not argue that Steam could be changed to limit installs. I do not argue that SecuROM could allow unlimited installs. They are programs and programs can be changed to whatever is required.
My point is how they are currently being used: given a choice of DRM protection, I would much rather be restricted by only allowing myself access to that product, rather than being restricted by a limited number of activations.
I mearly used the point that people know of SecuROM and the limited number of activations that is being used and that Steam is limited by who is using it. Of course that can be changed in the future, but that is how it is used at this moment in time.
securom drm is NOT just a copy protection, copy protection prevent you from copying something and don't go beyond that.
DRM control the fact that you can't copy it, but also you're right to use a product, if EA wan't to block you using they're game for any reason they can, they just have to block you're ID and the game can't be used anymore.
this has nothing to do with piracy, it's about controling what you are doing with you're games. i speak about ea because it's a recent exemple.
what on earth give them the right to say, that a game have to be installed only three time ? also changing hardware on the pc burn an installation right ... reseting the cmos also did this...
if i wan't to reformat my pc every day, change my graphic card or hdd every week (it's not the reallity ) , it's my right to do it. so allow a company to decide that i must not reformat my pc more than three time or buy again the software is not an acceptable option for me.
for information. impulse is not a drm platform but only a digital distribution platform, you can run the games without impulse runing. also the games distributed on impulse are drm free (or this may be stated on the buy page) as english is not my main langage i hope i don't misread this post on the impulse forum
http://forums.stardock.com/325029
DRM control the fact that you can't copy it, but also you're right to use a product, if EA wan't to block you using they're game for any reason they can, they just have to block you're ID and the game can't be used anymore.
this has nothing to do with piracy, it's about controling what you are doing with you're games. i speak about ea because it's a recent exemple.
what on earth give them the right to say, that a game have to be installed only three time ? also changing hardware on the pc burn an installation right ... reseting the cmos also did this...
if i wan't to reformat my pc every day, change my graphic card or hdd every week (it's not the reallity ) , it's my right to do it. so allow a company to decide that i must not reformat my pc more than three time or buy again the software is not an acceptable option for me.
for information. impulse is not a drm platform but only a digital distribution platform, you can run the games without impulse runing. also the games distributed on impulse are drm free (or this may be stated on the buy page) as english is not my main langage i hope i don't misread this post on the impulse forum
http://forums.stardock.com/325029