Purebasic for OpenMoko => Neo 1973 ?!

bender-rulez · Post by **bender-rulez** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:05 am

Hi,

what about porting Purebasic to OpenMoko?!

Look: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Running_OpenMoko_on_PC

...Since OpenMoko applications are GTK based...

This would be so fine...

Post by **freak** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:22 am

I want PB on my calculator first...

bender-rulez · Post by **bender-rulez** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:25 pm

yeah, ho ho ho!

ok, serious again, what would argue against porting it to that platform?

From my point of view it looks not that difficult?

As soon I got OpenMoko running on my x86 linux system, I will try to use Purebasic for develop an "hello world"-app.... => wrapping libmokoui

If this will be successfull we would only need an arm-cpu linux version of purebasic... looks like cross-compiling....??

@freak: didn't you working too on the pb-linux version?

BTW: are there peoples from Frankfurt/Main Germany here?

Post by **freak** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:53 pm

Well, in all seriousness this would be just a fun project, nothing that is really worth the effort.

> From my point of view it looks not that difficult?

Just because its Linux based and there is gtk does not mean it is easy.
Porting the compiler to a new processor takes months of hard work, and that
is just with the initial port. Supporting bugfixing and keeping an additional platform in sync
with the others also takes a huge amount of extra work once the initial port is complete.

btw, this is what it sais on the project page:

Currently it is not suitable for users. The state of the software at the moment is pre-alpha. If you order a Neo1973, DO NOT expect to be able to use it as an everyday phone for several months.

How many extra licenses sells do you think such a PB port would create ?
I'd say you can probably count those on one hand.
Judge yourself wether this would be a good buissness decision...

Just look at the MacOSX version of PureBasic. The user reaction to that has been
a huge disappointment. If not even a MacOSX port can get enough users
to make it really worth all the hard work, then this thingy certainly won't.

> @freak: didn't you working too on the pb-linux version?

I work on all versions of PB.

Kale · Post by **Kale** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:03 pm

freak wrote:Just look at the MacOSX version of PureBasic. The user reaction to that has been a huge disappointment. If not even a MacOSX port can get enough users to make it really worth all the hard work, then this thingy certainly won't.

Don't take this the wrong way m8, but i can totally understand the poor sales due to the utterly inadequate official website!

www.purebasic.com and PB in general NEEDS a complete re-brand. I'm surprised that this wasn't done with v4.0. The current website is woefully poor in its design and looks completely amateurish. PB deserves better, especially for the hard work you've already put in!

Marketing is everything and your main point of sale is your website. think on it.

Flype · Post by **Flype** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:27 pm

freak wrote:Just look at the MacOSX version of PureBasic. The user reaction to that has been
a huge disappointment.

i was wondering what was the success (or not) of the mac version. so now i know.

it's not surprising me, the 'product' purebasic isn't known.
it's a great language, fantaisie software must be proud of it.

but kale is right, the major problem is advertisement, and a website which looks more attractive, more professional.

i'm sure with good advert you can boost a lot licenses selling.

so then you can have one or two more coders in pbteam.

Joakim Christiansen · Post by **Joakim Christiansen** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:48 pm

Kale wrote:Marketing is everything and your main point of sale is your website. think on it.

Agreed, it could need an update! It has to look a little stylish...

EDIT:
Maybe I could give it a try, not that my current page looks any good, but if I get some spare time I could do some design sketches.

I think the index page should show 3 little screenshots, one from windows, linux and mac. Then everybody can see that this works on those platforms and how good it looks. Then some nice description of it features and it's current release, but not everything at the main page.

bender-rulez · Post by **bender-rulez** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:24 pm

@freak:

mmmhh, ok, sorry, don`t know about the porting complexity...
I tought the compiler is written in C or C++? Therefore I thougt porting to an other linux-platform would not that difficult...

Well about the other version of PB... I ever wonder why there is a V4 for Amiga... ok, I switched form Amiga in the past to Windows (for 2 years)... after that switched to Linux until today (even on work)!

My Desicion to take PB for my Projects is just that I can easy code for all supported plattforms where my focus is on linux and as benefit it also compiles under windows....

I never tested the MacosX version, but I already got an VMare with it on...

About the OpenMoko: yes the hardware is at the moment just a develop hardware... but in the future.... the platform is not restricted to that phone...

Mistrel · Post by **Mistrel** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:29 pm

I think the website is excellent. Very simple, straightforward, and easy to navigate. Everything that a website should be.

Just get all of the Ogre stuff working and I think business will really pick up. I believe marketability is what PureBasic needs and not a flashy website. And there is a big market for BASIC languages for game development, I think, for indies.

juror · Post by **juror** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:58 pm

The website had nothing to do with my decision to purchase PureBasic (OK, yes, I needed some place to place the order).

The 'flash' (or lack) of the website had absolutely NOTHING to do with it.

My decision was based on:
1) Capabilities of the language
2) the Forum
3) the 'friendliness' of the language
4) the overall 'value' I perceived (pay one price for life! WOW)

I would imagine that most prorgamming language purchasers, unlike maybe a game buyer or book buyer, would base their decision on content rather than packaging.

Just one man's opinion.

Kale · Post by **Kale** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:18 pm

juror wrote:I would imagine that most prorgamming language purchasers, unlike maybe a game buyer or book buyer, would base their decision on content rather than packaging.

Well your argument falls flat on its face because the most widely used language in the world is VB. need i say more?

The website needs updating, period. To expect more sales with it in its current state is a false hope.

Also, as was said, (and i've said it before too) the PB team are missing a HUGH chunk of the market that buys these kind of compilers. I'm talking about the indie game dev crowd. Look at the amount of people over at Blitz and Darkbasic! All the PB team has to do is implement a COMPLETE 3D engine into Purebasic, tell the world about it being a compitor to DB and Blitz (through a new shiny website) and then watch the crowds come here in droves. Simple.

juror · Post by **juror** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:27 am

Kale wrote:
juror wrote:I would imagine that most prorgamming language purchasers, unlike maybe a game buyer or book buyer, would base their decision on content rather than packaging.
Well your argument falls flat on its face because the most widely used language in the world is VB. need i say more?.

And you're saying it's because of the website?

Gee, how could anyone possibly argue with 'logic' like that?

Kaeru Gaman · Post by **Kaeru Gaman** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:57 am

this discussion again misses it's aim.

sure, only part of the customers buy a product because of the design of the website.

sure, VB is that successful because M$ pushes their products into companies,
where a lot of people get in touch with programming.

sure, a lot of the indie-proggers buy rather blitz or dark, because the marketing is better fitting to this target group.

PB aimed to the application market the last years, the game-section was a bit forgotten.
a changing of the website can only be one step, and it has to be done carefully.
perhaps two completely divided websites, one for the application section,
the other one for the games section would be a good idea.
Application programmers won't buy a "GameMaker"-looking produkt,
Game proggers won't buy a dry DataProcessing system.

there is more to be done for the gaming section...
full implementation of OGRE resp. including wrappers for other 3D-engines into the package, full DX9 support....

also 64bit arguments for API calls......! (to make OGL work properly)

all little steps in expanding.

Kale · Post by **Kale** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:20 am

juror wrote:
Kale wrote:
juror wrote:I would imagine that most prorgamming language purchasers, unlike maybe a game buyer or book buyer, would base their decision on content rather than packaging.
Well your argument falls flat on its face because the most widely used language in the world is VB. need i say more?.
And you're saying it's because of the website?

No. :roll: It's because of maketing! Not because people have looked at the content of the package or evaluated the language, etc, etc, which you reckon most programmers do. It's being used because beginners think it is what everybody else is using, wether or not it is the right choice, marketing has brainwashed them. And of course they really are all using it now.

VB is an incredibly bad language and fosters many bad programming practises, it's not even case sensitive! I have been learning more about it recently and it stinks.

PB needs a new website to market the language. There doesn't need to be two, one for apps , one for games. Just one, well designed, well focused website which gives clear information on the strengths of PB.

PC Gaming is driving the PC industry nowadays, it would be foolish to not target such a big market.

Dare · Post by **Dare** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:23 am

Extending on this .. marketing a product is a mix of many things of which the website is one. An important one.

Price and support are among the other factors and in this I believe PureBasic is strong.

Marketing can also be expensive!

There are a few things PureBasic can do to improve it's position.

One is boring but effective. List PureBasic on every site that allows products to be listed. These listings will help no end with google and etc searches, directly and indirectly - searches for, say, "basic compiler" would see the Pure website promoted closer to the top because of relative importance (links to the site) and because every one of those sites with a listing would show through the search results.

Another thing PureBasic could do is change it's sales/licence policy. I will coin terms here but ..

PureBasic is a revenue producer based on "conquest". The only way to get additional revenue is to sell a new product ("conquer" new territory).

A better way to produce revenue is to "colonise". Conquer, then exploit, to put it badly.

Which eliminates free updates. This could be done on major versions. A good candidate for this was the v 4 release. Even a tiny fee on major upgrades would provide an additional revenue stream.

And I do believe PureBasic could be artificially split. Core + module. That is, customers could buy, for example:

Core + Standard (application stuff like the windows and gadgets libs) $X
Core + Graphics (3D stuff and stuff specific to gaming) $X
Core + both $Y

If buying "standard" or "graphics" a small fee could later upgrade to "+ both" and the $X + $upgrade should generate a tiny bit more than an original $Y.

Not too hard, just needs a way to manage release of the two modules so that some don't get recognised for the wrong type of licence.

There is the issue of those who bought PureBasic on the promise of free upgrades for eternity or armageddon, whichever comes first. A line can be drawn and future customers get a licence for a major release and pay a small fee for upgrades (new major version numbers), whilst those who bought PureBasic and it's future get to keep that model of the deal.

lol. Just typed a missive! Sorry! But I truely wish it would change as PureBasic deserves to enjoy financial success. Big time.