Is C really that hard to learn?

merihevonen · Post by **merihevonen** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:20 am

Hello!

I have always been doing some stuff in PureBasic, Python and some Perl too... So I was wondering if C is hard to learn... Why I am asking this, is because most of the outstanding projects have been written in C.. here are some to name:

Linux Kernel by Linus Torvalds
VST Technology by Steinberg
Need for Speed: Most Wanted [PC Version] (Don't know of Carbon, but Most Wanted is written in C++..) by EA Games

Many might know the Linux kernel.. but for those who don't know, it is the "heart" of an Linux Operating System. The kernel itself isn't the OS, note that! THe Linux distributions, like Debian, Ubuntu, SUSE, Mandriva, etc.. build the rest of the body, whilst the most important part of it is the heart ofcourse, and that is the Linux kernel.

The VST Technology (Virtual Studio Technology) is a Software Synth/Effect Plugin API for music creation applications like FL Studio, Cubase, etc.. Have you heard some cool TB303 sounds in some modern Trance/Techno tunes? That is most likely done with a TB303 VST Plugin

I guess you all know the last one.. yeah it's that uber-cool racing game form Electronic Arts.. I got to knew that NFSMW was written in C++ in an IRC channel.. I guess it was called #ea but I don't remember on which server it was..

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So if anyone would be so kind to give me some tutorial pages about C, I would appreciate it a lot! The main parts I would like to study is basic parameter handling, basic Input-Output stuff and advanced GUI creation..

Thanks a million times!!

Nik · Post by **Nik** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:08 am

You forgot about OpenOffice, gtk+ , KDE(C++), Firefox, and even most parts of Windows and many more.
I too lean C++, and I think it's not realy the language taht is hard but the way you develop in it. You need to lean about much more major compilers, Makefiles or use full blown IDEs. It's also a little bit more complicated to choose from the many available Librabries. because ther is nothing like a common way, there are however many Common ways, there is pure WinAPI and MFC on Windows, POSIX, GTK and KDE on Linux and so on. I use c++ to develop Server software as a learning project. Since this software runs on the commandlien only I only need POSIX and MySQL for it. This makes things very portabe as well. My test client for example (plain POSIX) currently runs on Linux x86, Mac OS X x86, Mac OS X ppc and NetBSD UltraSparc and that is only the systems I could use to test...

btw: PureBasic is written in C aswell

Trond · Post by **Trond** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:34 am

Don't use MFC.

techjunkie · Post by **techjunkie** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:27 pm

To learn (pure) C, you need just one book - it's outstanding!

http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/cbook/
and to learn (pure) C++, this one!

(Dennis M. Ritchie RULES!)

Kale · Post by **Kale** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:40 pm

I learned C and C++ years ago and found them very easy because (to be honest) there aren't many keywords to learn. The only trouble is that there are some very unusual ways of using these few keywords and operators to achieve advanced functionality. This is actually why i don't use it.

I read a few books on C++ and basically thought woohoo that's that sorted lets download some code off the net and have a play. Imagine my surprise when i couldn't make head or tail of that code! Couple this with the fact that there are alot of bad C/++ programmers out there that don't care about code formatting and comments and you are in a world of hurt.

Simple C/++ is easy. The more advanced stuff is like a massive puzzle that never makes sense.

I've now switched to C# and it is fantastic. Yes, ok, it needs the .NET runtime but C needs the C runtime library. Both are now part of the OS.

C# is clean, easy to understand, well documented and forces good programming practises. Visual Studio 2005 is also the greatest IDE you will ever use. I truely believe it's the one thing Microsoft has ever got right.

This is the best book i've read on C# and thoroughly recommend it:

http://www.apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=390

Kaeru Gaman · Post by **Kaeru Gaman** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:32 pm

...there are some very unusual ways of using these few keywords and operators to achieve advanced functionality.

wich is actually the real power of C.
you can use C as any other language, or you can take advantage of what makes C unique.
of course noone could use every trick on instant, but with the time you can get used to the philosophy.

I think the approach - how you learn it - makes a big difference.
as Kale said, there are a lot of bad programmers out there, and even codes from good ones are hard to understand.
better take some books and some tutorials and learn it step by step first.
looking into other's code is only useful if you reached an advanced level.
(look into the sources of the PBOSL. could you read it like a comic? no? understood?

)

...there aren't many keywords to learn.

just imagine, PB would consist of only those keywords you find on the left of the Help's content-table.
only loops, if, select/case and some other.
imagine, all LIBs on the right side of the table were LIBs you have to include manually.
also count every UserLib and the complete PBOSL and the CodeArchive as avaliable LIBs.
this will give you some picture of how C is.

- C itself isn't hard to learn
- to make use of the possible tricks is learning of some new philosophy
- to know much avaliable libraries and make correct use of them is a lot of work

-----------------------------------------------

... but C needs the C runtime library.

Egypt...?

Both are now part of the OS.

wich OS....
I don't get these two statements resp. I doubt them...

thefool · Post by **thefool** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:34 pm

I would like to comment Kale's choice for a book, yes its good. Im not done at all with it, but so far its one of the best i have read. And its quite fast and no-nonsense. Worth every penny

srod · Post by **srod** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:47 pm

I quite like c, even though I'm no expert with it. It is very easy to learn as there are so few keywords (as already pointed out). I find a good knowledge of asm helps a lot since the build process is very similar etc. It's good stuff! Better than that VB crap! C++, on the other hand, is a fire breathing, s*it shovelling monster! It does my head in! Way way too many obscurities with the oop bolted on like some dodgy house extension!

I must admit that when I eventually look at .Net in any meaningful way (which is inevitable I guess) then it will be C# rather than VB.Net. No question!

merihevonen · Post by **merihevonen** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:02 pm

Thanks for every recommendation!
I will see if I can get one of these books through Amazon.com...
So it isn't very hard, right?

If it isn't much asked, could someone give me a very very simple "Hello World" dialog written in C? If possible, using GTK+ or wxWidgets (I love this one!)

Thanks!

dracflamloc · Post by **dracflamloc** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:09 pm

One problem with C#: Its slow as dirt. Not as slow as Java, but its pretty bad in big projects or intense processing.

I think C is great and use it a lot. Theres one thing you are gonna miss bigtime when moving to C, and that is the PB libraries. They really make things a lot faster to develop and thats why I still do some apps in PB.

You should also check out the D programming language. It's kind of a hybrid between java and C++, but can be used like C. It has a garbage collector like C# or Java, however its natively compiled so the speed lies somewhere between C and C#/Java. Plus its open-source (GDC)

merihevonen · Post by **merihevonen** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:14 pm

I think I understood everything:

C# - "Slow"
C - Good
C++ - Shit

But I think that some people have jumped over some things that I asked here earlier:

So if anyone would be so kind to give me some tutorial pages about C, I would appreciate it a lot! The main parts I would like to study is basic parameter handling, basic Input-Output stuff and advanced GUI creation..

And:

If it isn't much asked, could someone give me a very very simple "Hello World" dialog written in C? If possible, using GTK+ or wxWidgets (I love this one!)

Kaeru Gaman · Post by **Kaeru Gaman** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:27 pm

merihevonen wrote:C# - "Slow"
C - Good
C++ - Shit

the difference in C and C++ is mainly the possibility of OOP in C++
if you don't make use of it, you're actually programming C, no matter you use a C++ compiler....

Tipperton · Post by **Tipperton** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:46 pm

C is a lot like Chess....

Fairly easy to learn, difficult to master, especially pointers (they were always my biggest problem).

srod · Post by **srod** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:49 pm

@merihevonen, there are more c tutorials scattered around the net than porn sites. Just do a Google search.

Kale · Post by **Kale** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:52 pm

Kaeru Gaman wrote:I don't get these two statements resp. I doubt them...

See:
crtdll.dll
msvcrt.dll