Is it just me?

[Tipperton]

The second scenario crops up when a programmer posts a program and a no comparable source exists and most forum users don't understand how it was achieved. It is this second case that'll generate the most buzz and the inevitable clamoring for sourcecode.

Very good point! In that case I think it would be more polite to ask if he was willing to share or explain how he did that cool or interesting thing instead of asking for the source code to the eintire program.

The interest would then would be focused on the cool or interesting thing he did so the source code to the entire program isn't needed.

If somebody freely offers the source code of their program, I think it is great that they are willing to share like that and will grab the source if its something I'm interested in.

My primary purpose for their source is to try and learn from the code how to do things. (I freely admit I'm no expert, but I'm always willing to learn) But I've never copied and pasted anyone's code into my own programs, instead, I prefer to try and learn from their code how to do something I want/need to do, then write my own code based on what I've learned.

[DoubleDutch]

Some people won't run programs unless they have seen the source.

I wonder if these people know that the actual processor they are running it on is usually running closed source microcode!

I wonder if they make the same demands of "I won't use it unless I see the source" to Intel and others before they use their microcode running microsprocessors?

[netmaestro]

I decrypted a snippet of the Intel microcode:

Code: Select all

If port=110
  bcc="nsa@whitehouse.com"
Endif

That's all I've got so far, it's tough going.

[Kaeru Gaman]

Some people won't run programs unless they have seen the source.

I wonder what they do on their computer...
...they must be spending all the time between the releases for reading the source of the new OS-version...

[DoubleDutch]

[srod]

I decrypted a snippet of the Intel microcode:

Code: Select all

If port=110
  bcc="nsa@whitehouse.com"
Endif

That's all I've got so far, it's tough going.

[Tipperton]

I also prefer source rather than a Lib, normally I use no UserLibs at all,

That's fine and is your choice, but that brings up a question that is probably at the heart of why I consider asking for the source code rude or at the very least, inconsiderate.

The question is: After you've imbedded somebody else's code in your program (especially for something you release and/or sell) do you give them credit in your copyright notice or do you just claim the whole program as your own work?

All too often I've seen programs that were claimed to be entirely the author's work only to find out later that they used code they got from other people and didn't bother to give credit where credit is due.

Unless specified by the author, to me this is plagiarism if not outright theft.

I'm not saying that I think anyone here does this, its just that I've been a victim of this very thing...and its very irritating.

[Kaeru Gaman]

http://www.purebasic.fr/german/viewtopi ... 528#125528

sure I give credits or thanx even for tips not only for code.

normally i prefer own solutions more then implementing complete code-snippets,
but I have no problems with putting some "my thanks go to"-section into the credits...

but at the end there is a limit for all, or should I thank Commodore in every game i write for their screen-memory organisation on the C64 wich made me understand the basic concept of a tile-engine?

[Tipperton]

but at the end there is a limit for all, or should I thank Commodore in every game I write for their screen-memory organization on the C64 winch made me understand the basic concept of a tile-engine?

Agreed, there are limits, some are spelled out, some aren't. For example most (if not all) development systems (languages) don't require that you put something like "Portions copyright by <some company>" in your copyright messages. Most commercial components also don't require it either.

But that is quite different from someone sharing their source code and someone else using it will little or no changes in their own program, then claiming all the code as their own.

I always do include the "Portions copyrighted by ..." or "This program uses components from ..." in my copyright and/or credits messages.

Besides giving credit where it is due, if another developer sees those messages it might just generate another sale for the developer of the components I use and that in the end helps me by encouraging them to continue developing their components.

[Tipperton]

I think it's an age gap that does it -- I'm 37 and grew up when PCs were "new" and nobody gave away their sources because it made them rich. Kids these days just want it all without learning anything for themselves. :roll:

I'm not sure if it an age gap but just simply a trend. I see it all the time while doing SoftwarePassport/Armadillo support.

In my support work I've always tried to follow the saying "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for life."

Many times its happened that someone asks a question and I tell them they can find their answer in the help file on a page titled "X" in the hope that next time they has a question they'll look in the help file first, and I get flamed for not simply giving them the answer! I get this behavior from people of all ages!

[Trond]

I decrypted a snippet of the Intel microcode:

Code: Select all

If port=110
  bcc="nsa@whitehouse.com"
Endif

That's all I've got so far, it's tough going.

Well, you've got an error in that code, it must be whitehouse.gov.

[Kale]

I dont regard it impolite for people to ask for source code for a particular program. In fact coders should be encouraged to view as much source code as possible for learning purposes.

I'ts rather like asking a woman to stay the night, it's not impolite just a little hit and miss. But if you don't ask you never get!

Source code can be the ultimate learning tool. Remember that a lot of coders are just as curious as you as to how things work and how things are accomplished. Without questions (and without viewing others' source) coding as a hobby or career would not exist.

[garretthylltun]

I used to share a lot of sources with other programmers on forums. But
after a while, I got tired of those same programmers releasing competing
programs to mine. Since then, I've stopped sharing a lot, but still help
others with specific problems.

Most of what I've seen in my years is that when they ask for the source
code, they don't want to really learn from it, they want to cut and paste
most of the code because they don't want to take the time to learn it the
right way. They want to create that *killer App* right now without having
to learn to become a real programmer. So they find programs that are
similar to what they are trying to make, scavenge the code out of it, ask
for code from others, then call it all their own and not even give one
little bit of credit to those who helped, those they jacked most of the code
from or anything.

The reason they flame and dog you when you don't is because they think
their tantrum will eventually get you to cave in and cough up the source
so they don't have to learn how to do it on their own. But don't give in
to them, because they really need to learn on their own and not by simply
grabbing the code from someone else and moving on without ever really
knowing or understanding what the code does.

You can tell who these people are when they come back to the forum
asking for help on an entire program that they just started last week!
And they can't seem to figure out why it just won't work for them. LOL

Programmer: "Did you declare all your constants?, Did you initialize
those variables? Are all your flow controls ended properly? Did you
add some error checking?"

Code Jacker: "What do you mean declare constants? and what are
variables and how do I initialize them? Can you help me fix my program
please? I will give you some of the money from the sales of it! "

I could on with this scenario, but I think most programmers who've been
around for a long time know where this goes.

Anyway, no, not rude to ask, but make sure you politely say no and do
not say anything else, no excuses or reasons why, just simply say no.

And if they start the bashing of you after that, do not reply to the bashing,
just ignore it and move on. Mature people will see the jerk for who he/she
really is and you'll be fine. And the other person will either find some
other sucker, or actually learn how to do it, or give up and go back to
popping pimples and playing video games. Either way, you'll have acted
in the correct manner and saved yourself from any personal guilt.

Well, that's all just IMHO

[Trond]

Do you plan to release the source code?

I see this frequently in these and other forums...

I don't know about anyone else but to me this is just plain rude.

Isn't it a compliment? It shows people know you've done something difficult. Of course, it's VERY, VERY rude to ask twice, or put pressure on him to release the source code, but I don't think it should be forbidden to ask and take a no for a no. The programmer should ABSOLUTELY NOT be required to give a reason or anything like that.

[Tipperton]

Maybe its the timing that makes me think it rude.

Too often it seems that when somebody offers a program they've written for free, that people wil start asking if the source code will be released before even saying thank you for the free program or offering any kind of critique about the program good or bad. Gives the impression they haven't even seen the program yet. Grabby, grabby, grabby...

Or maybe I'm just crazy... wouldn't be the first time my thoughts or opinions were called that, probably won't be the last...

Anyway, this has been an interesting discussion, thanks for all your input!