perceiving reality

blueznl · Post by **blueznl** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:32 pm

Well, after I took some biology lessons

I DID start to believe in the need for well rounded shapes and big bossoms...

Seriously though, there's nothing wrong with believing in God, as long as your world(view) and the actions you take do not invalidate or prohibit the world(views) of others.

In effect, God as a concept is perfectly acceptable, and if we realize our belief in God does affect the way we perceive thus affects the way we act, then I fail to see how religion could be a bad thing.

Not that it may help either

It's, in a way, part of the whole input > filter > process > output chain. It will affect behaviour, but may provide a good moral compass. It's extremism in any form that I do not like. (

After extreme Left and extreme Right there's now extreme Middle!) In fact, the basic thing causing and amplifying extremism (either communism, atheism, Islamism, or it's-too-late-i-cannot-think-clear-ism) is that people are unaware of their own 'filters' and conditioned 'responses' and thus their world(view) is re-enforcing itself.

Sure some perceptions are better than others. Eg the ones believing in god are, in my opinion, ignorants of facts. Its simple as that! Like our world creation.

Well, no. Some world(views) may be more compatible with others, and in that sense you could say they are better, but that is because they match YOUR personal world(view) better

One could say that world(view)s are getting worse the more oppressive and / or ignorant they become. Ignorance itself is not a bad thing, but once combined with unwillingness (to learn) it's a deadly combination.

(For latecomers, scroll back a little and read my previous post

)

Kaeru Gaman · Post by **Kaeru Gaman** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:22 am

@blueznl
I agree.

@all
"reality" is a kind of "convention".
i.e., what most people consider to be real is called "reality" to make their living together easier.
centuries ago it was "reality" that god created a flat world within six days.
today it's "reality" that there is no god and all is just a messy huge amound of coincidence.

people believe what teachers tell them,
teachers believe what professors tell them,
professors believe what scientists tell them.
so at the end its a kind of religion aswell.
most people take for granded what scientist love to call "scientificly proven",
but most times it's just a theory that is not yet proven wrong.

if you shift your notebook off the table it will fall down.
regardless if you consider this a physical world (or a matrix) the
notebook (or the part of code that pretends to be your notebook) will be damaged.
but does this mean we already have the merest idea what gravity is?
in the one model, gravity is a quantified radiation like is light, x-ray, radioactivity, etc.
in the other model gravity is just some bending of spacetime caused by mass.
but what is gravity? well, we don't have the merest idea.

to read this means, light travels from your monitor and is percieved by your eyes.
in one model (that can be proved by an experiment) light is a quantified radiation,
wich means that it can devided into little portions that can't be devided smaller.
it's materia.
in another model (that can be proved by an experiment) light is an electromagnetic wave,
wich means it is no materia.
but what is light?
it seems that light is something between waveform and materia, some concept, that encloses both.
but waveform and materia are absolutely counterparts, diametral opposide concepts.
it seems that the nature of light is something that is far beyond our powers of imagination.
and additionally, light is only the thing you can easiest experiment with,
the waveform-materia-duality is valid for any kind of materia.

oh yes, and for some biology lessons:
Mutation is the change of information within the DNA-chain,
but not changing the length of the DNA.
changing the length of DNA is Polycondensation.
different species have different legths of DNA.
sure there is mutation.
take Darwin's example, the finches on Galapagos.
of course there are dozens of different races of finches, all mutated out of one single family.
but none of them ever mutated into an eagle.
in fact, there is no prove that polycondensation could spontanously happen.
scientists just "want to believe" that there is a form of outer-species-mutation,
because there are different species and they don't want to postulate a "god".
as I said above, it's a kind of religion, too.

and before you nail me to the next tree:
no, I'm no creationist.
I just don't want to believe in any religion based on the limited perception of other humans,
regardless if this "religion" postulates a "god", or postulates the absence of any "god".

i just build my own religion out of my own limited perceptions.
it's not better or worse, but it's mine.

thefool · Post by **thefool** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:49 pm

most people take for granded what scientist love to call "scientificly proven",
but most times it's just a theory that is not yet proven wrong.

As far as i know, nothing can be proven. Yeah, nothing!

But im damn right when i say you can prove something wrong!

Derek · Post by **Derek** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:53 pm

thefool wrote:
most people take for granded what scientist love to call "scientificly proven",
but most times it's just a theory that is not yet proven wrong.
As far as i know, nothing can be proven. Yeah, nothing!

But im damn right when i say you can prove something wrong!

If everything is only being percieved through filters etc and everyone percieves things differently, then who is to say what is right and wrong and therefore how can anyone prove something wrong, even 1+1 doesn't have to be 2. It's only 2 because we are told it is, what if it is actually 3 and we are all getting it wrong.

blueznl · Post by **blueznl** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:08 pm

Derek, you are spot-on! In fact, it's even better than that: it means that we are all 'right' in a way.

thefool · Post by **thefool** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:40 pm

No. You are just stupid. All of you

A little joke, but you are on the way to a point where im convinced that it is a fact, that you are stupid.

Derek · Post by **Derek** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:09 pm

If we are all stupid and you are the only one that isn't then that would make us all the normal ones and you would be abnormal.

blueznl · Post by **blueznl** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:42 pm

Not in *HIS* world

thefool · Post by **thefool** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:44 pm

Derek: Normal is a bad word in my ears.

@blueznl, take those biology lessons again! (not that you didn't understand them first time, but so you would stop harrasing me hehe)

jack · Post by **jack** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:49 pm

your argument against GOD is as eloquent and as short sighted as that the earth is flat, frankly I am disgusted and had enough of the PB community.

blueznl · Post by **blueznl** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:56 pm

the earth isn't flat?!? why didn't anybody tell me?!?

hey jack, don't get silly, you may want to try the off-topic board if some things annoy you, but the community as a whole is NOT explicitly defined by the few members that frequent the off-topic board

thefool · Post by **thefool** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:16 pm

jack wrote:your argument against GOD is as eloquent and as short sighted as that the earth is flat, frankly I am disgusted and had enough of the PB community.

Its the other way around. Religion is the thing that stops ideas like the earth isnt flat.

YOURs, or any other religious person's (yes even the pope) argumentation for god is worse than the earth is flat or not.

I laugh when i hear people telling about it.

If the earth is flat or not is science and reality, which is the total opposite of religion.

YOU have no good arguments! No one has. Except scientists. Yeah you heard me

Derek · Post by **Derek** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:16 pm

@thefool, yeah, sorry. What is normal anyway.

@jack, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, I think if believing in God helps someone along then that is good, maybe there is a God, maybe even more than one, who knows. I wouldn't leave the PB community over what someone says.

thefool · Post by **thefool** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:19 pm

Derek wrote:@thefool, yeah, sorry. What is normal anyway.

@jack, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, I think if believing in God helps someone along then that is good, maybe there is a God, maybe even more than one, who knows. I wouldn't leave the PB community over what someone says.

I did not say people who used god to get through their life was bad. Just that they are if they deny the science!

About normality, yeah. I guess "normal" is the average! If we take 10 000 people, and 8000 of them has white shoes, 1000 black and 1000 purple, then white would be the normal.

But there is a problem with this model. It can't be transfered to humans!

Kaeru Gaman · Post by **Kaeru Gaman** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:23 pm

"you must be silly. there is nothing like 'Red'", said the blind man and laughed....