Mini-ITX - Any experience? thoughts?

dell_jockey · Post by **dell_jockey** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:39 pm

I'm thinking of going the mini-ITX route to run my avionics package. I'd need an extra PCI graphics card.
Also, I'd like to have a solid state disk. Cooling will be done with outside air (ram air) feeded through a SCAT hose. The housing will be a double one, the inner housing containing the pc and functioning as a heat sink. The outer housing will be very thin and will force the ram air around the inner housing.
I'm currently writing the app in PB and plan on using a stripped down Linux that only contains the modules needed to run the graphics, the multitasker of course and perhaps an automount USB, to be able to update the software & data with a memory stick.

mskuma · Post by **mskuma** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:29 am

dell_jockey wrote:I'm thinking of going the mini-ITX route to run my avionics package. I'd need an extra PCI graphics card.

Not sure if this is helpful - to avoid using a PCI card (for ultimate compactness) you could use the recently-released DVI daughterboard that plugs into the LVDS socket (if your board has it & your monitor supports DVI input) but I'm not sure if you can run it as a genuine second monitor. This configuration definitely works if you are mirroring the VGA display (I've done this for a digital panel via the RGB/LVDS daughterboard module). Certainly these daughterboards are an interesting add-on for these EPIA boards.

dell_jockey · Post by **dell_jockey** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:29 pm

mskuma wrote:
dell_jockey wrote:I'm thinking of going the mini-ITX route to run my avionics package. I'd need an extra PCI graphics card.
Not sure if this is helpful - to avoid using a PCI card (for ultimate compactness) you could use the recently-released DVI daughterboard that plugs into the LVDS socket (if your board has it & your monitor supports DVI input) but I'm not sure if you can run it as a genuine second monitor. This configuration definitely works if you are mirroring the VGA display (I've done this for a digital panel via the RGB/LVDS daughterboard module). Certainly these daughterboards are an interesting add-on for these EPIA boards.

One of the boards I'm contemplating is http://www.heisei.com.tw/products/flex- ... gle_board/. It has a LVDS interface. I also found a display with touch screen that plugs into it. If the built-in graphics controller doesn't cut it, I want to upgrade it with an extra graphics processor. Any hints as to what to use is welcome.

As to using multiple screens: I do plan on this, both screens will display identical content, one screen mounted on the front instrument panel, the other one in the rear (see my sig). Is it possible to use a splitter with LVDS displays? The rear display won't need a touch screen, so that eases matters.

One last item: I'd like to run a mini-Linux that only contains those libraries that are needed to run the app. No IP stack, but perhaps an auto-mount USB.

mskuma · Post by **mskuma** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:31 pm

I've not had any experience with the KN400A graphics (maybe it's comparable to unichrome?). On the EPIAs, you've got Unichrome or Unichrome Pro (on the SP boards) the latter has better performance. Be aware at higher res (more than 1024 x 768) some of these EPIA onboard graphics (VGA) tend to get fuzzy. If graphics performance is critical, you'll ideally want to roadtest the desired board to evaluate to see if you're ok with the performance for your app because these graphics chipsets are not common outside the EPIA field.

Your app to mirror the display front & back will be no problem using the VGA + daughterboard option (LVDS or DVI). I've done VGA + LVDS (panel) simultaneously and there no apparent performance degradation that I could see. This display mirroring capability is setup via a BIOS setting. Some EPIA boards (e.g. M10k) also have a RCA & s-video out, which also can be setup to mirror the VGA output too (at certain TV-compatible res), so that might be fine for you too.

As for Linux, I've only had limited experience with Puppy (very lightweight unix) & I worked with a fellow who tweaked the graphics support so it would work with EPIAs unichrome (at the time, there was limited support, but now it works fine). I think epiOS is also worth a look for a pain-free EPIA experience, but Puppy is leaner & can be sized to run well from a USB key or CF card.

HTH

Nik · Post by **Nik** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:00 pm

Well as for the Linux I think, most Distros like Puppy are designed for everyday use not for use in a plane. If I were you, I would use a debian sarge minimal install and then install needed software, debian is very stable and easy to mantain. However you deffinitely will have network support since networking sits deep in the Linux kernel. As with the Display, it probably isn't a very good idea to run a fullblown X-Server only to display some gauges, if you like writing your own routines you could use a frambeuffer, there are probably also some libraries to make this easier.

Straker · Post by **Straker** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:37 pm

As freak pointed out, damnsmalllinux. It has a GUI and has a 50MB footprint.

Also - here is a page I have been checking out regarding USB Stick Autorun:

http://christophe.delord.free.fr/en/linux/usb.html

Nik · Post by **Nik** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:58 pm

Well I think for DSl it's the same as for others, it's to much tailored to low and normal desctop use and not realy worth the hassle for an aviation system, if a full blown debian install is to big you could also use some small linux distribution which comes without a gui

Beach · Post by **Beach** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:40 pm

Nothing to add here... just adding my 2cents...

For me, if my life depended on how stable my OS was, I would also choose a Debian Sarge minimal install 'without' an Xserver running (as Nik suggested).

It will not be as pretty as a windowed app obviously.

Although, if you are willing to trust a plane that you hand built, you might be more willing than me to take the added risk with a GUI.

dell_jockey · Post by **dell_jockey** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:07 am

ok, so Debian Sarge is the most stable of the lot. I'll check it out, thanks for the hint.
If I understand things correctly, leaving out X will also preclude running PureBasic apps that need graphics, right?
The current incarnation of (parts of) my app use the PureBasic sprite library. On Linux/Debian, SDL is needed to run these types of apps. SDL on Linux/Debian sits atop X, so I reckon I need to investigate in a Debian Sarge + X installation. Of course, I won't need GNOME or KDE nor any of the other apps.

Jan Vooijs · Post by **Jan Vooijs** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:15 pm

Tranquil wrote: The EPIA MK-II Mainboard has not enough power to run as a Home-Theatre System or MCE. I tried much but its not possible to record a movie and do some other things on the system. (Even if your TV card own's an MPEG-encoder chip)

Mike

The epia sp-13000 is capable of doing just that record AND watch one channel yes both are separate channels with an Hauppage mce500 running windows MCE2005. But you need the EPIA hardware drivers to do it, this board (and other epia boards) has mpeg PLAYBACK in hardware!!

Now i am waiting for and travla 138 case to rebuild my htpc from one ugly case i do have now. And lose the noisy build in power supply with this little puppy:

(yes bought at cartft.com this is the 120w version, there is and 80w also)

Oh by the way the sp-13000 has SATA use it since the IDE is an bottle neck on those boards they run most of the time in ata-100 and NOT ata-133 as advertised, while the sata goes up to 1.5Gb (sata-I)

Jan Vooijs