Fuel for you OOP non-believers...

utopiomania · Post by **utopiomania** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:32 pm

@rtst, try Visual Studio Express C#, from Microsoft for starters. It's free, it's probably the future, and you can download about eight hours of excellent videos from there as well explaining how to use it, and why OOP is ok in most circumstances. The 'Hello World' is 2k5

Check it out!

rsts · Post by **rsts** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:49 pm

utopiomania wrote:@rtst, try Visual Studio Express C#, from Microsoft for starters. It's free, it's probably the future, and you can download about eight hours of excellent videos from there as well explaining how to use it, and why OOP is ok in most circumstances. The 'Hello World' is 2k5 Check it out!

Thanks. Actually C# would be high on my list IF it weren't for the .net. That baggage makes it much less attractive.

cheers

utopiomania · Post by **utopiomania** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:05 pm

rsts wrote:

Thanks. Actually C# would be high on my list IF it weren't for the .net. That baggage makes it much less attractive.

I thought so too, until I realized there's no sensible way to avoid it. It's just like trying to ignore the underaying API code when compiling PB programs and discussing it's (real) size. Anyways, do John Doe with a couple of 300Gb harddisks really care about 20Mb's of .net runtime overhead? No

Trond · Post by **Trond** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:08 pm

utopiomania wrote:@rtst, try Visual Studio Express C#, from Microsoft for starters. It's free, it's probably the future, and you can download about eight hours of excellent videos from there as well explaining how to use it, and why OOP is ok in most circumstances. The 'Hello World' is 2k5 Check it out!

Starting it takes about eight hours as well. Creating a new project takes over a minute. Every times it's started it creates a folder in My Documents even though it's empty.

It's just like trying to ignore the underaying API code when compiling PB programs and discussing it's (real) size.

If we do that, we still get the 20 mb difference, since the Windows implementation of .Net depends on the Windows API.

fsw · Post by **fsw** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:13 pm

Kale wrote:
rsts wrote:Now, given Paul's track record, if I add the caveat - "likely to be around and supported for a while" - what would your recommendation be?
Paul is not the only developer in the Aurora team. I'm a partner developer along with nine others, Paul is the lead. So you can see it's future is quite safe.

So you have the complete code for the Aurora compiler?

Kale wrote: Plus, Pyxia's downfall was not Paul's fault or even anything to do with Paul.

He was the owner...
He needed money...
He sold the whole IBasic line...
He said he needs to concentrate on other things than programming...
He moved and started a new job...
He is the lead developer of a new prg-language...

How much IBasicPro code is in Aurora?

I never read a clear statement from Paul saying he never used IBasicPro code for Aurora, he only said he didn't sell the right to program compilers...

As a sidenote:
Some month ago I visited the Aurora forum and read (besides other stuff) Paul's whining about why he needs money for his mother (and he got it from forums members). At this point I thought:
It seems to be a habit, because I read the same sort of whining (about other stuff) years ago in the IBasic forum.

How professional is that...

rsts · Post by **rsts** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:00 pm

rsts wrote: Now, given Paul's track record, if I add the caveat - "likely to be around and supported for a while" - what would your recommendation be?

cheers

Sorry I wrote that. I really didn't mean to turn this into a discussion on IBasic and/or Paul's trials and tribulations.

Actually, Aurora does look very nice.

I'm retired and program for enjoyment. I don't really want to learn an additional dozen or even half dozen languages. Been there, done that. There's a reasonable learning curve associated with becomming halfway proficient at any language and I don't have the luxury of unlimited time to learn. I'd like to select a language or two that is going to allow me to develop reasonably full featured programs in a reasonable development environment. Kind of like PureBasic. I'm a little uncomfortable investing more time and money in a "hobby" language. By "hobby" I mean where the development of the language and it's feature set is not the main priority of the developer or development team - where the language is not the primary means of suport for the developer (and no, I'm not wanting to turn this into any kind of shot at PureBasic).

I probably won't be learning more than another language or two. I want to choose wisely.

cheers

Kale · Post by **Kale** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:05 pm

fsw wrote:So you have the complete code for the Aurora compiler?

Yep. Compiler is written in C++ and the libs are written in Aurora.

utopiomania · Post by **utopiomania** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:43 pm

rsts wrote:

I'd like to select a language or two that is going to allow me to develop reasonably full featured programs in a reasonable development environment. Kind of like PureBasic.

There's also NS Basic Desktop. It uses VB Script as it's core, (a subset of Visual Basic 6), has access
to the API, creates small single exe programs and does not rely on the .NET framework and costs $100.

The company seems solid, and the language you learn is very relevant since VB Script resembles VBA, VB6
and can be used for html scripting as well.

White Eagle · Post by **White Eagle** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:30 pm

For an OOP BASIC, you can always check out Brutus2D. Its extremely cheap ($10 USD), but pretty powerful, based on DX 8.1, and you can use OOP BASIC (VB Script) or OOP Jscript (Javascript styled).

If you decide to buy it, please tell the owner that Brice sent you

White Eagle · Post by **White Eagle** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:35 pm

Kale wrote:Paul is not the only developer in the Aurora team. I'm a partner developer along with nine others, Paul is the lead.

With so many people involved, is there any chance one of you could take the time to write some docs so it doesn't say "description goes here" for everything?

Kale · Post by **Kale** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:30 pm

White Eagle wrote:
Kale wrote:Paul is not the only developer in the Aurora team. I'm a partner developer along with nine others, Paul is the lead.
With so many people involved, is there any chance one of you could take the time to write some docs so it doesn't say "description goes here" for everything?

It's only just moved out of alpha!.... *sigh* whatever, i can't be bothered to argue...

utopiomania · Post by **utopiomania** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:32 pm

fsw wrote:

He was the owner...
He needed money...
He sold the whole IBasic line...
He said he needs to concentrate on other things than programming...
He moved and started a new job...
He is the lead developer of a new prg-language...

And...
http://www.ionicwind.com/forums/index.php?topic=965.0
http://www.ionicwind.com/forums/index.php?topic=829.0

ehhrm... About OOP, I feel I don't need any of it right now. If I did, It would probably be in
large, serious projects involving many developers and tens of thousands of dollars and lines of code,
and I would use a Microsoft product (C#) for that, not Aurora.

For now, PureBasic is probably my best option, and I don't have any problems with it related to the
fact that it's not OOP.

Kale · Post by **Kale** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:38 pm

utopiomania wrote:fsw wrote:
He was the owner...
He needed money...
He sold the whole IBasic line...
He said he needs to concentrate on other things than programming...
He moved and started a new job...
He is the lead developer of a new prg-language...
And...
http://www.ionicwind.com/forums/index.php?topic=965.0
http://www.ionicwind.com/forums/index.php?topic=829.0

ehhrm... About OOP, I feel I don't need any of it right now. If I did, It would probably be in large, serious projects involving many developers and tens of thousands of dollars and lines of code, and I would use a Microsoft product (C#) for that, not Aurora.

For now, PureBasic is probably my best option, and I don't have any problems with it related to the
fact that it's not OOP.

I wonder if people here would help Fred out if he ever fell on hard times? I'm guessing we probably would. Don't kick a man while he's down.

utopiomania · Post by **utopiomania** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:47 pm

Don't kick a man while he's down.

Sorry, but I was just linking to a couple of his own posts?

Maybe he's both down and manage to kick himself at the same time ??

Wow, 500 posts too...

utopiomania · Post by **utopiomania** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:01 am

And another thing Kale.. These days an employer Googles you before you're hired so how smart is it to
put up this kind of pity-parties all the time under your own name?

Not that this has anything to do with this thread, but I just can't get it...