PB and 3D

mp303 · Post by **mp303** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:02 pm

I have to agree, I think PB's 3D command-set is rudimentary, at best. And with no real enhancements in over 3 years, marketing PB as being suitable for creating modern 3D games would be unfair.

But it also isn't being marketed as that. What is says is, "Easy and high quality 3D support based on OGRE" - and as somebody pointed out, that would be sufficient for, say, architectural walkthroughs, real time 3D data visualization etc. It doesn't say anything about games.

Since more advanced 3D support has apparently not been on the top of the wishlists of registered PB users, you can't blame Fred if he's been focusing on other things.

In my personal opinion though, perhaps Fred should consider making the 3D support in PB an Open Source effort, placing it in a public CVS - encouraging users to contribute enhancements to the 3D command-set.

Then perhaps the community will do what Fred can't make time for. And I'd like to emphasize again, I don't hold it against him, if he chooses to prioritize other things. But it would be awesome if 3D support was made open to contributions from the community...

Kale · Post by **Kale** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:00 pm

mp303 wrote:Then perhaps the community will do what Fred can't make time for. And I'd like to emphasize again, I don't hold it against him, if he chooses to prioritize other things. But it would be awesome if 3D support was made open to contributions from the community...

The OGRE engine (even PB's implementation) is open source.

mp303 · Post by **mp303** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:34 pm

Kale wrote:The OGRE engine (even PB's implementation) is open source.

it is? well, where is it?

Post by **Berikco** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:24 pm

mp303 wrote:
Kale wrote:The OGRE engine (even PB's implementation) is open source.
it is? well, where is it?

In the help file under 'terms and conditions'
http://www.purebasic.com/OgreSources.zip

mp303 · Post by **mp303** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:24 am

Berikco wrote:In the help file under 'terms and conditions'
http://www.purebasic.com/OgreSources.zip

uh, that's just a copy of Ogre? Obviously Ogre itself is open source, I knew that - I'm talking about the wrapper for PB?

stevev4v · Post by **stevev4v** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 10:03 pm

How's about changing/fixing whatever prevents 3impact from being used with PB? I own 3impact which I use with iBasic (which I don't care for all that much personally) and found it to be an excellent, affordable, full-featured engine. It plugs into iBasic and BMax so maybe that is something worth taking a look at. Maybe PB could even partner with them in some mutual benefical way. I agree with the original poster though despite the rhetoric and fan boyism that permiates these types of forums, In reality, PB's 3D stuff is not ready for prime time. As for not posting Blitz3D's command list.. well.. that is pretty much what you need to have to be competitive in 3D and the only real gripe that I and many others have with B3D is that it is based on DX7 and the limitations that obviously entails. Don't get me wrong, PB is an excellent language in many areas but the 3D does need some work.

As for 3D not being on top of the priority list, maybe it should be as I suspect you will have a whole lot more registered users if something substantial were to happen in that area. Blitz3D and DB people are looking for an upgrade path but nobody making indy languages seems interested or willing to capitalize on that fact.

Just my 0.02 cents worth.

X · Post by X » Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:16 am

Sebe created a wrapper @ http://www.purebasic.fr/english/viewtop ... ht=3impact , it's been in beta for almost a year.

Something have been started @ http://www.3impact.com/3Impact_Engine/f ... pic=1131.0 , unfortunately it dead ended.

Unfortunately, there is no current way to use 3Impact with Purebasic. Author of 3Impact have no interest in expanding sales of that engine. And the current 3Impact community have no interest.

We are SOL.

stevev4v · Post by **stevev4v** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:54 am

I see that Rav Singh in that last forum link you posted claimed that it could not be done due to PB's lacking DWORD... and values being passed got truncated... but that claim was somewhat refuted by another user, however I think because of this post people have drawn the conclusion that PB is incapable of supporting the 3impact DLL... anybody know if this is indeed the case or not? If so, maybe that needs to be looked at.. 3impact plugs into BlitzMax, PowerBasic, VB, and iBasic Pro or in other words, pretty much every other popular BASIC language except PureBasic... there is even support for the Alpha verison of Aurora for pete's sake.

mskuma · Post by **mskuma** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:05 am

X wrote:Sebe created a wrapper @ http://www.purebasic.fr/english/viewtop ... ht=3impact , it's been in beta for almost a year.

That's a mistake. Sebe's referring to ColdSteel which is a kind of irrlicht port/extension which was developed by another person.

tmyke · Post by **tmyke** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:53 am

For 3D under PB, Try this

http://www.dreamotion3d.com/PureBasic/PackPB.zip

It's only in French for the moment, and it's the beta test, but
English Doc, Physic module and fisrt release coming soon...

White Eagle · Post by **White Eagle** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:38 am

It has been some time ago, and my memory is a bit foggy because it has been so long, but I am almost certain that myself and a couple of other PB users showed an interest in 3impact and joined their forums hoping to get a PB compatible interface. However, to the best of my memory we were flamed, insulted, made fun of and other such nonsense simply because we were using PureBasic and not some bloated strain of C++.

However, I agree that PB has lousy support for 3D. But, PB itself has a major identity crisis like ALL indie languages that try and support games and apps. Throw in multiplatform support and you are definitely left with the "jack of all trades, master of none" scenario. One can only imagine how great and stable the 4.0 version of PB would be if Fred didn't waste his time working on the Linux & Mac versions, which only a small handfull of people will ever use.

Kale · Post by **Kale** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:25 pm

White Eagle wrote:PB itself has a major identity crisis like ALL indie languages that try and support games and apps.

I agree, IMHO PB needs marketing better! I mean where is it advertised? If i were Fred i would finish the current PB4 ports then expand the 3D side and try and win some of the masses of people from Blitz3D and DPPro. Not only because it would be cool, but because it make solid financial and business sense.

stevev4v · Post by **stevev4v** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:40 pm

White Eagle wrote:It has been some time ago, and my memory is a bit foggy because it has been so long, but I am almost certain that myself and a couple of other PB users showed an interest in 3impact and joined their forums hoping to get a PB compatible interface. However, to the best of my memory we were flamed, insulted, made fun of and other such nonsense simply because we were using PureBasic and not some bloated strain of C++.

I do remember that thread, there was actually a good, constructive dialogue going (even the 3impact dev was involved) until 2 people screwed it up... the first one was one of their posters which basically said to go figure out how to do it yourself then a purebasic user was basically accused of waving his credit card around demanding that they write a PB wrapper. Anyhow, the 3impact guy's comment seemed to piss off the purebasic people and the purebasic guy's comment pissed off the 3impact people then the peanut gallery chimed in and the insults started flying. Stupid.

http://www.3impact.com/3Impact_Engine/f ... pic=1131.0

The top of page 2 is where is starts to go south.

White Eagle wrote:However, I agree that PB has lousy support for 3D. But, PB itself has a major identity crisis like ALL indie languages that try and support games and apps. Throw in multiplatform support and you are definitely left with the "jack of all trades, master of none" scenario. One can only imagine how great and stable the 4.0 version of PB would be if Fred didn't waste his time working on the Linux & Mac versions, which only a small handfull of people will ever use.

I totally agree. 100%. I will say that I firmly believe a marriage between PB and 3Impact would be a match made in heaven... if anybody can pull it off. I *think* they offer a reduced price collaborative license specifially for this type of situation and I *think* they offered a free upgrade to the full license if someone were successful with a PB wrapper but after all that BS, I don't know if that offer is still on the table. Also, I think all the headers for the the other languages are written by the respective communitites.. I don't think 3Impact involves themselves officially in that anymore. 3Impact is a SWEET engine.. for the price, it is a very good buy. I currently use it with iBasic which sort of sucks because I don't particularly care much for iBasic... but at least I can use it I guess.

I own a full license, if anybody can help me with translating the C++ headers, I will test and translate the demo code.

raygr · Post by **raygr** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:18 am

White Eagle wrote: One can only imagine how great and stable the 4.0 version of PB would be if Fred didn't waste his time working on the Linux & Mac versions, which only a small handfull of people will ever use.

I prefer to imagine how great and stable the 4.0 Linux & Mac versions of PB would be if Fred didn't waste his time working on 3D, which only a small handful of people will ever use

chen · Post by **chen** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:16 pm

raygr wrote:
White Eagle wrote: One can only imagine how great and stable the 4.0 version of PB would be if Fred didn't waste his time working on the Linux & Mac versions, which only a small handfull of people will ever use.
I prefer to imagine how great and stable the 4.0 Linux & Mac versions of PB would be if Fred didn't waste his time working on 3D, which only a small handful of people will ever use