Some people does need real solutions. But they shouldnt be waiting for them, in fact. they wont if they need REAL solutions, they'll go for the best choice. and PB is certainly not a real solution for anything professional right now.
You can go with work-arounds, etc. But thats, thats wasting time and money.
Personal Opinions
dagcrack wrote:Some people does need real solutions. But they shouldnt be waiting for them, in fact. they wont if they need REAL solutions, they'll go for the best choice. and PB is certainly not a real solution for anything professional right now..
Alrighty.... I just recently finished up a windows application written in Purebasic4 and I extensively used VD to build the GUI. It kicked major ass even with the rough edges. It saved me an amazing amount of time.
The software sells for $500 (along with the evaluation board that it controls), and you'd never guess who the last customer for the board was? Microsoft! We actually got compliments on the GUI from the design team that we demonstrated the system too. Bwah ha ha ha.
Anyhow, to say that VD and Purebasic doesn't provide a real solution is a load of crap. My previous GUI was built in VB6 (and later moved to VB.net) and it took a hell of a lot longer to build and I'm still fighting with having it run correctly in overseas (particularly Japan and Taiwan).
ps- anyone who wants to see the software in action is welcome to stop by the GlobalComm Zarlink booth in Chicago next week (http://www.globalcomm2006.com/)
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netmaestro
- PureBasic Bullfrog
- Posts: 8452
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:42 am
- Location: Fort Nelson, BC, Canada
Oh, what do we have here? The story of Ferruccio and Enzo repeated!?.
I've been talking about the VD 4.0, I don't know if you are in the same channel here. But thats what the discussion is all about.
That editor needs work.. It shouldnt of been released as is (alpha state).
Selection system needs work.. The actual selection rendering is bad (sometimes it renders, sometimes it doesnt.. For instance, inside a panel gadget make a few gadgets, now select them.. well, try to, since the selection will be done but you wont see it until you move your group of gadgets).
Click on a panel gadget... Now it went to "LMB Down" mode .. .When you just wanted to click on the tab to select it and work on it!.
Event system?.. I made 20 gadgets and forgot to click "Include event loop" now my 20 gadgets wont have events registered, I must do it by hand!.
50 Gadgets in tabs and the designer struggles to render them all.
Got custom code? Don't worry, the VD4 WILL crash on you!.
Make a few gadgets inside a panel, now make a frame gadget. well, you lost your gadgets since the frame one is being rendered on top. You can't controll how gadgets are created, nor MOVE them in the hierarchy.
I could be all day listing the bugs but it makes no sense since its an alpha.
Nevertheless, someone should work on this.
I agree with wcardoso, its not acceptable. And if he doesnt have time, then someone else should do it. But such excuses on a commercial product are not professional.
If the so called VD is free, then it shouldnt be used as a marketing tool, since it's a lie. Also, it should be released as such, so even if someone doesnt have PB but works with/for you, he could design the GUIs without having to buy PB for that. But no, the VD Is not capable of "compiling" the results (even though it could emulate them).
You want me to compare this VD4 with others?.
It is not up to the task. If it was finished, it could be a little nicer but its certainly not. And I don't see it becoming finished anytime soon.
The old VD was ok but had no support for "catching" gadgets from source (which was my idea).
About PB.. the Gadget Lib -as many others- are mostly wrappers and nothing else, nothing more. You don't have access to many important things using the library, it's very limited, etc.
If you have a so-called LIBRARY, it should have support for all the important things, you shouldnt have to go low-level for simple things, thats what I mean with "wrapper and nothing more".
Not that I have a problem going low-level, but if you make a library.. Don't just wrap an API (half assed) and call it a lib for that.
What about maths? PB doesnt support all the important math routines.
It sells itself as powerful for 3D game development, but thats certainly another lie.
I don't see much custom work in PB. But rather, a language that tries to work "ok" on multiple systems. But fails to be powerful as it is, trying to support other's work but failing to (pnglib anyone?, as example).
The compiler sure got nicer, although a lot of credit has been given for macros and such things that are really easy to implement in a language.
PBs "ASM output" wouldnt got hurt with some optimization neither would the VD4 of course.
If Fred wanted some customers, he could easily develop packs of libraries for them.
If Fred wanted some more customers, he would keep an updated site, he would have an online manual with a search function and whatnot. A real marketing plan.
You say he wants to but he cant (not enough time?)...
Cant he get someone to do it then?, Not professional.
PBs external image is ugly. I would buy a marketing book or two if I was Fred.
No offense but theres at least some freedom of speech left in this forums right?. No need to flame about this, because you wont get a solution if you fight. Rather than saying whats wrong and whats not, why dont we put all the wrong things over a table, organize them and see how can they be fixed?.
Because PB wont grow much if this things are left as is.
Although, he should know what hes doing, right?..
If not, You'll call me Ferruccio soon.
One things for sure, I won't shut my mouth and I'll always tell you what I think about anything.
Now, peace.
But you tell me if you don't think that many areas of the product are lacking some professionalism and some quote of attention.
I've been talking about the VD 4.0, I don't know if you are in the same channel here. But thats what the discussion is all about.
That editor needs work.. It shouldnt of been released as is (alpha state).
Selection system needs work.. The actual selection rendering is bad (sometimes it renders, sometimes it doesnt.. For instance, inside a panel gadget make a few gadgets, now select them.. well, try to, since the selection will be done but you wont see it until you move your group of gadgets).
Click on a panel gadget... Now it went to "LMB Down" mode .. .When you just wanted to click on the tab to select it and work on it!.
Event system?.. I made 20 gadgets and forgot to click "Include event loop" now my 20 gadgets wont have events registered, I must do it by hand!.
50 Gadgets in tabs and the designer struggles to render them all.
Got custom code? Don't worry, the VD4 WILL crash on you!.
Make a few gadgets inside a panel, now make a frame gadget. well, you lost your gadgets since the frame one is being rendered on top. You can't controll how gadgets are created, nor MOVE them in the hierarchy.
I could be all day listing the bugs but it makes no sense since its an alpha.
Nevertheless, someone should work on this.
I agree with wcardoso, its not acceptable. And if he doesnt have time, then someone else should do it. But such excuses on a commercial product are not professional.
If the so called VD is free, then it shouldnt be used as a marketing tool, since it's a lie. Also, it should be released as such, so even if someone doesnt have PB but works with/for you, he could design the GUIs without having to buy PB for that. But no, the VD Is not capable of "compiling" the results (even though it could emulate them).
You want me to compare this VD4 with others?.
It is not up to the task. If it was finished, it could be a little nicer but its certainly not. And I don't see it becoming finished anytime soon.
The old VD was ok but had no support for "catching" gadgets from source (which was my idea).
About PB.. the Gadget Lib -as many others- are mostly wrappers and nothing else, nothing more. You don't have access to many important things using the library, it's very limited, etc.
If you have a so-called LIBRARY, it should have support for all the important things, you shouldnt have to go low-level for simple things, thats what I mean with "wrapper and nothing more".
Not that I have a problem going low-level, but if you make a library.. Don't just wrap an API (half assed) and call it a lib for that.
What about maths? PB doesnt support all the important math routines.
It sells itself as powerful for 3D game development, but thats certainly another lie.
I don't see much custom work in PB. But rather, a language that tries to work "ok" on multiple systems. But fails to be powerful as it is, trying to support other's work but failing to (pnglib anyone?, as example).
The compiler sure got nicer, although a lot of credit has been given for macros and such things that are really easy to implement in a language.
PBs "ASM output" wouldnt got hurt with some optimization neither would the VD4 of course.
If Fred wanted some customers, he could easily develop packs of libraries for them.
If Fred wanted some more customers, he would keep an updated site, he would have an online manual with a search function and whatnot. A real marketing plan.
You say he wants to but he cant (not enough time?)...
Cant he get someone to do it then?, Not professional.
PBs external image is ugly. I would buy a marketing book or two if I was Fred.
No offense but theres at least some freedom of speech left in this forums right?. No need to flame about this, because you wont get a solution if you fight. Rather than saying whats wrong and whats not, why dont we put all the wrong things over a table, organize them and see how can they be fixed?.
Because PB wont grow much if this things are left as is.
Although, he should know what hes doing, right?..
If not, You'll call me Ferruccio soon.
One things for sure, I won't shut my mouth and I'll always tell you what I think about anything.
Now, peace.
But you tell me if you don't think that many areas of the product are lacking some professionalism and some quote of attention.
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Fangbeast
- PureBasic Protozoa
- Posts: 4792
- Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2003 3:08 pm
- Location: Not Sydney!!! (Bad water, no goats)
Admittedly; I don't use the internal visual designer; but a third party one; but I also sold a small application recently to a police unit. (Done in pb4, it's a very, bare bones, uncomplicated aplication (grin))aaron wrote:dagcrack wrote:Some people does need real solutions. But they shouldnt be waiting for them, in fact. they wont if they need REAL solutions, they'll go for the best choice. and PB is certainly not a real solution for anything professional right now..
Alrighty.... I just recently finished up a windows application written in Purebasic4 and I extensively used VD to build the GUI. It kicked major ass even with the rough edges. It saved me an amazing amount of time.
The software sells for $500 (along with the evaluation board that it controls), and you'd never guess who the last customer for the board was? Microsoft! We actually got compliments on the GUI from the design team that we demonstrated the system too. Bwah ha ha ha.
Anyhow, to say that VD and Purebasic doesn't provide a real solution is a load of crap. My previous GUI was built in VB6 (and later moved to VB.net) and it took a hell of a lot longer to build and I'm still fighting with having it run correctly in overseas (particularly Japan and Taiwan).
Comments were something like, "Hell, I can't believe it's so small!!, Geez that's fast", "You can run it off a floppy?? and it doesn't mess with my registry?"
I had other nice nice comments as well, some of them graphic from happiness and they are trying to arrange more licenses for me.
There are a lot of other developers in the forums who make commercial apps in pb and don't waste their time flapping like the other poster because they are actually busy.
Aaron, good on you, stick it to the naysayers. It's up to native talent and ability, that's what I say. Your story will encourage others to do what we've done.
Amateur Radio/VK3HAF, (D-STAR/DMR and more), Arduino, ESP32, Coding, Crochet
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Fangbeast
- PureBasic Protozoa
- Posts: 4792
- Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2003 3:08 pm
- Location: Not Sydney!!! (Bad water, no goats)
Thanks. I hope so too. Without a car, jobs around here are impossible to get and I need the money.Dare wrote:Onya Fangs!
My oldest pb application (A glucose tracker for diabetics) was being used by several people around the world (freeware) and recently Bericko paid me the ultimate compliment and used my library item tracker for his kids.
As I said to Aaron above, I personally know of lots of people writing in pb for professional applications. Some free, some commercial. It's all a matter of focus, commitment, native talent (in my case, lots of help (grin)) and for that 'other' person to say pb can't be used for professional apps is the purest bullshit. But, there are a lot of no talent hacks who spend all their time talking and not doing anything else. No talent I guess.
/me watches for the flames to start, even though he didn't mention names:):):):) /me is evil... /me loves it.
Amateur Radio/VK3HAF, (D-STAR/DMR and more), Arduino, ESP32, Coding, Crochet
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netmaestro
- PureBasic Bullfrog
- Posts: 8452
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:42 am
- Location: Fort Nelson, BC, Canada
Agreed, Fangbeast. I'm at my flaming limit for the week or I'd respond to that individual myself. But I'm convinced he's pretty well-oiled by the time he starts typing so it would really be like talking to a fence post. But I will say I don't understand why people who insist on putting a product down don't just shut up and move on to something else instead of harping ad nauseum to the rest of us -who they know don't agree- about how inferior they think it is.
BERESHEIT
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netmaestro
- PureBasic Bullfrog
- Posts: 8452
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:42 am
- Location: Fort Nelson, BC, Canada
http://www.purebasic.fr/english/viewtop ... highlight=dagcrack wrote:Oh, what do we have here? The story of Ferruccio and Enzo repeated!?.
I've been talking about the VD 4.0, I don't know if you are in the same channel here. But thats what the discussion is all about.
Event system?.. I made 20 gadgets and forgot to click "Include event loop" now my 20 gadgets wont have events registered, I must do it by hand!.
Just stay out the VD4 section if you can't read.
You don't want to help test it and help it get stable from the beginning, so all people who asked to help and release as alpha are all wrong??
So much complains about PureBasic..I wonder what you are doing here?