Some thoughts about the future of Pure Basic

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RichardL
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Some thoughts about the future of Pure Basic

Post by RichardL »

Some thoughts about the future of Pure Basic
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I have been using Pure Basic for about two years, after using GFA Basic for about eight years, Visual Basic for two weeks (too long), Power BASIC (insufficient graphics support at the time) for some months and various other basic language versions going right back to HP 9845 BASIC and Commodore’s offering (Written by Microsoft), in 1977.

The software I write is mainly for engineering purposes, used mainly by myself or others in the company and a few clients. I do have one game on my conscience, but that was written in 1978 and that got games out of my system :lol: .

Generally I am the judge of the effectiveness and reliability of my own PC based software. However, over the last two years I have distributed some applications to clients and been pleasantly surprised by the performance and reliability that Pure Basic provides, even when confronted with my programming style.

Some time ago I wrote in these forums that in my opinion PB and jaPBe combine to efficiently produce software that is effective, fast and reliable. I still hold that view. Version 4 moves Pure Basic onwards, my experience with converting one major application has been very positive but I must admit that until some of the third party libraries I use have been updated I will not switch over from 3.94.

How far can Pure Basic go? To expand and become more widely used it needs to be further developed and used more widely; this is a circular situation. To be used more widely more people need to know of its existence, try it and find it solves their problems, then tell others.

For development to continue and to pay for some effective marketing Pure Basic needs income; which only comes from sales.

I do not know how many paid for copies of PB exist but try multiplying your guess for the number sold by the price, and see how many developers you could support with the result. When I say ‘support’ I really mean ‘pay a market rate salary ’. As Pure Basic is sold primarily on the Internet it should not have too many sales overheads such as printed manuals, delivery costs, carriage, insurance etc so I expect (and hope) that the majority of the purchase price goes to supporting the development team. Try turning the picture round, how many sales are needed each year to keep the team productive?

With this in mind is Pure Basic likely to make a significant dent in the market share currently going to the much larger established players? Will PB forever remain the domain of the enthusiast who is short of cash and the professional who recognises a good thing at a good price and only has himself to satisfy regarding ‘suitability for use’?

In a conference relating to another low volume BASIC dialect, programmers were extolling the performance, compactness and reliability of their finished software but were considering migration to Visual Basic. One guy explained how his program was vastly faster than the VB equivalent as well as being smaller but he was turned down at a recruitment interview. This was purely on the grounds that his prospective employer needed software that could be maintained and supported when the original programmer had moved on to new areas. To do this the employer needed to be able to advertise for programmers skilled in the use of Visual Basic and be sure of getting a choice of candidates. If you are the only programmer using WhizzBangBasic and your products are the fastest and most reliable that can be achieved it is still unlikely that you will get a job writing software except for niche applications. In essence, if you want to program professionally and make money you are probably best going for one of the Microsoft supported languages. (I am never good at taking my own advice!)

I’m not sure where this is going, I am lucky in being able to use the delightful interface that is jaPBe and of having the fast and effective compiler called PureBasic sitting behind it. I am judge and jury regarding the quality of my own output; lucky me. None of my clients are dissatisfied with what I produce. Would they be so happy if I got run over by a bus? Is Pure Basic ever likely to make it into the big-time; or even the modestly-large-time? I hope so.

How can we help Fred and his gifted team move Pure Basic forward and upwards and gain a critical mass that ensures its long term success?

Thoughts anyone?
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Post by josku_x »

donate a little each time you go to McDonalds?
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Post by Joakim Christiansen »

If all the people from German could stop using their own top secret forum and start sharing the good stuff with us it would be cool!
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Post by benny »

Joakim Christiansen wrote:If all the people from German could stop using their own top secret forum and
start sharing the good stuff with us it would be cool!
I also wonder that there are some nice codes I am missing from the french
forum. Nevertheless, I guess such forum in other languages are a helpful
pool for younger users of purebasic who don't speak english very well.

Nevertheless, IMHO Andre made a cool first step for sharing good stuff with
http://www.purearea.net and of course the http://www.purearea.net/pb/showcase/index.php.

And of course not to forget : http://www.reelmedia.org/pureproject
regards,
benny!
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pe0ple ar3 str4nge!!!
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Post by utopiomania »

How can we help Fred and his gifted team move Pure Basic forward and upwards and gain a critical mass that ensures its long term success?
For starters, they could help themselves by charging for major upgrades or something.

Free updates forever is an idea from hell if you plan to make a living out of programming.
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Post by Phoenix »

utopiomania wrote:Free updates forever is an idea from hell if you plan to make a living out of programming.
Agreed. I would pay for each major update. Fred is being far too generous. Free updates was fine before v4.00 but now the language has matured to the point where it can really compete with other languages, so he should have changed the license to stop the free updates (which he didn't, so it's too late now). I think he's missed the boat now. A shame. I hope he knows what he's doing...
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Post by techjunkie »

Phoenix wrote:
utopiomania wrote:Free updates forever is an idea from hell if you plan to make a living out of programming.
Agreed. I would pay for each major update. Fred is being far too generous. Free updates was fine before v4.00 but now the language has matured to the point where it can really compete with other languages, so he should have changed the license to stop the free updates (which he didn't, so it's too late now). I think he's missed the boat now. A shame. I hope he knows what he's doing...
I second that! I can't believe that 3.xx -> 4.00 is free!?! Of course we should pay for the upgrade.
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Post by josku_x »

When I buy PureBasic, will I get all the future updates for free ?

Yes. The very first PureBasic user (which has registered in 1998) still has free access to new updates and this is not going to change.
I think fred made a very good decision that you get free updates after you bought the program. this ensures that more users will buy the product and also that many programmers can live easier.

I just mean, let's say you are at home, you are working on your great project for your company, but then you notice there's a limitation and that you cannot continue with the project. The feature is added in the next major version which update costs $39. You are on a very tight budget and can't buy the update, your project will stay "suspended" until you buy the next major version.

That would be horrible (well, atleast for me). Remember that quality substitutes amount.
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Post by thefool »

The worst possible situation would be if Fred changed the free updates thingy for EXISTING users. If that happened, i would permanently move to C# or something else..

The free updates gets many users i think. Perhaps, the price could be put a little higher.. Perhaps you could have a small yearly update fee for new users or so on...
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Post by Phoenix »

josku_x wrote: I just mean, let's say you are at home, you are working on your great project for your company, but then you notice there's a limitation and that you cannot continue with the project. The feature is added in the next major version which update costs $39. You are on a very tight budget and can't buy the update, your project will stay "suspended" until you buy the next major version.
That's the risk one would have taken when they bought the license.
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Post by Dare2 »

There also needs to be a corporate licence. Per seat, or whatever.
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Post by thefool »

Dare2 wrote:There also needs to be a corporate licence. Per seat, or whatever.
In that, i agree.
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Post by utopiomania »

thefool wrote:
The worst possible situation would be if Fred changed the free updates thingy for EXISTING users.
He can't do that (legally), but I would certainly ditch my free upgrades rights and start paying for upgrades if
they change theire licence.
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Post by Fred »

We won't change the license model (which is attractive IMHO), but feel free to donate if you feel in mood ;).
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Post by oldefoxx »

PureBasic certainly is appealing to the independent developer. But as pointed out, it runs counter to corporate culture. It isn't just about using a language that belongs to the mainstream, but also about using a language that belongs in a big shop.

What do I mean by that? Simply that many major projects are subdivided to be worked on by different groups or individuals. You have to define the separate pieces to be developed, the interface or mesh between the different elements, set benchmarks, keep everybody on track and on schedule, and spend a lot of time conferencing or contacting other players to hash out details and issues that only come to light later on. You need full project and version control, task management, timeline management, and a host of other things that have little to do with actually writing code. You have documenters and manual writers sitting in, making notes, doing writeups, then meeting with developers and supervisors to make sure their accessment of what is going on is accurate. You have testers, and test plan writers, and you try to verify that everything works as intended. Then you go through a testing phase with customers to make sure they do not run into problems either.

That is so different from what an independent developer has to endure, or
how he approaches the task of programming. Which is why I say that PureBasic really works for the independent, but is not about programming
by committee. It's little surprise that an industry estimate many years ago was that a programmer in that environment might average five lines of new code a day - the rest if the time was taken up with a decision process as to what that code should be, or extraneous tasks.

PureBasic is, to me, about the love of programming, and the desire to write clean code that can do really significant things as a natural part of the language. It is also about a man who sees programming as an art form, and does it because it allows him to express himself creatively, producing something that others can marvel at and enjoy. It proves a point, that programming does not demand people become part of a corporate culture and slave to the dictates of others to find success and be equally creative.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but Fred likely does not want to sell his soul by pricing his product where he might be tempted to think of it as a commodity, where he becomes more concernws with maximizing profit over making it the best programming tool available. This is part of his legacy, something he will be remembered for and thought well of. He stands to be remembered for his product the way that other legends got started, such as the creation of Linux, the Open Source movement, PKZip, the first freeware AntiVirus, the first download manager that implemented
multi-sessions and resume, the consept of ShareWare, and many of the other good things that have come from the generosity of a few.

But, that is just my take on the subject.
has-been wanna-be (You may not agree with what I say, but it will make you think).
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