Windows Forms

[utopiomania]

Look, I asked a question about controls over at KPL , and got this answer:

There are some things which already allow KPL to be used for more than just game programming - but none of the WinForms-style controls you mention yet. It is certainly something we are considering for KPL, but it will be version 3 at least before we add that kind of capability.

Now, my concern about the .NET and the old Win32 API is this: Are apps written using PureBasic going to look dated
once everyone else (who aren't obsessed with size, (ouch!)) turns to .NET?

I've noticed that the apps I write in PB doesn't look like KPL or the Visual STudio Express GUI, do I need .NET to write apps like that or what?

Is that (GUI) the WinForms controls he's talking about?

Sorry for asking this, but If I'm right about this, you are wrong about .NET.

[techjunkie]

Iow, you blame .NET for doing this (if that is possible what you claimed, don't know).

No, but .NET is a "single point of failure". If .NET Framework on a server get corrupted, all applications using .NET on that server will stop to function. Something you have to consider in a D/R situation.

A single application without dependencies are more reliable IMHO.

[Edwin Knoppert]

PureBasic let's you insert an XP manifest resource easily.
In fact this would be the major 'switch' for you and your apps and should be set by DEFAULT.

OFTEN people comming from older Windows versions turn off the XP theming.. imo a big mistake (speaking afterwards):
Programmers will never learn what end-users see.
Programmers will never learn to see the upportunity for good looking Windows apps.
Nah, keep it old looking, 'the best approach' (NOT)

So in fact since day one of XP 'we' better had invested time to learn about the Windows direction.
Now finally Vista comes into play we seem to be eager(spelled ok?) to follow this new one, while several of us lacked to support the XP look completely.
O well, i lacked it myself while i liked the XP theming much but also never took time to discover how it actually works.

Imo simply preparing your apps with the manifest is the first and biggest step and so simple isn't?
Then we propably, like i did, encounter troubles with custom controls.
Well.. make the time and rewrite and urge 3th party control builders to do so as well, this is the future.
One single control can ruin your app 100% because of a single control doesn't work with with theming enabled.

[utopiomania]

PureBasic let's you insert an XP manifest resource easily.

Are you talking to me I always run the compiler with XP themes enabled. Doesn't look one bit like the GUI's I'm talking about though.

[Edwin Knoppert]

>If .NET Framework on a server get corrupted

Oh come on now, if the user.dll is demolished you'll have the same.
Maybe you have found a way to demolish .NET more easily than other Windows components..?
Bit of a nonsense isn't?

Again, i don't have any interest at this time for Windows .NET apps.
But i like the ASP.NET variant which is super!
Of course ASP.NET should not be part of the discussion imo.

I still believe that people don't like .NET because of it's learning curve, it's nearly unusable way for current win32 apps to integrate it (can not easily use it), it's size.
Frankly, if you have learned .NET you'll see HOW MUCH features it has and you'll never go back to current stuff, it contains nearly all the stuff you ever 'wined' for in win32-SDK.
The point is that there is no real need to rewrite apps but once .NET (2) is available by default (like Vista will) then the market is more willing to run this stuff.
So no hurry per se but learning (ASP).NET would certainly not hurt.

Ever heard about click-once applications?
I'm talking software for end users and not hobbyistic stuff(who cares for that).

[Edwin Knoppert]

PureBasic let's you insert an XP manifest resource easily.

Are you talking to me I always run the compiler with XP themes enabled. Doesn't look one bit like the GUI's I'm talking about though.

I would gladly see the difference you talking about, really.
I'm curious what you mean.
Unless you mean skinned applications, imo a different world, at least to me.

[Deeem2031]

oh my god....
well there will always be some people who thinks what m$ do is the best.

Yea, and there will always be some people who thinks what m$ do is shit. You guys don't exactly know what the .Net-Framework is but say its shit, only because m$ had the idea for it. Maybe its not the best way for writing applications but its a good alternative way. Ask Danilo, he's using the Framework - and he's happy about that.

[Edwin Knoppert]

MS can do shit but mostly they presented awfull good stuff.

I have an example:
My boss spoke about people showing object embedding into PowerPoint.
He was stunned, i said, that's OLE, well that's present since Windows 3.xx

Using a MS office program like Winword we take for GRANTED how such an editor works.
In fact you'll never see a control for your own application which actually does the same.
I mean the big picture, you write the control, 'the world' has the editor you deliver as their preferred editor and would like to do WYSWYG and printing export and so on.

Now we become silent heh?

We can't simply get it done like a 'simple' MS word does the trick.
So think twice how (MS) software is written and what it's really worth to you.
And.. an openoffice is not the same as i just meant above.
That's simply the same but still unusable for our own integration.

[utopiomania]

I would gladly see the difference you talking about, really. I'm curious what you mean.

I'm beginning to be curious too: http://www.kidsprogramminglanguage.com/ ,do you mean that the GUI is simply using some XP theme?

[techjunkie]

>If .NET Framework on a server get corrupted

Oh come on now, if the user.dll is demolished you'll have the same.
Maybe you have found a way to demolish .NET more easily than other Windows components..?
Bit of a nonsense isn't?

No, I don't think so... Haven't you heard about WFP?

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=222193

and yes, I have had a corrupt .NET Framwork a couple of times and it is a mess!

[Edwin Knoppert]

Can't find any relevant screen shots,so far the first which popup could be simply XP themed toolbar or coolbar.

Do you have better screenshots you want to show?
Direct links?

[Edwin Knoppert]

>If .NET Framework on a server get corrupted

Oh come on now, if the user.dll is demolished you'll have the same.
Maybe you have found a way to demolish .NET more easily than other Windows components..?
Bit of a nonsense isn't?

No, I don't think so... Haven't you heard about WFP?

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=222193

and yes, I have had a corrupt .NET Framwork a couple of times and it is a mess!

Shit happens..

O well nothing they'll improve don't you think?
(I did not read it but took a brief peek, sound serious though... for now)

I still don't think this degrades .NET itself.
Well, i go to bed, i have enough ASP.NETting to do tomorrow

[utopiomania]

Edwin,

Go to the 'It's free, Download KPL' at the left, then download the 'KPL' slideshow presentation' on the right.
You'll see some screenshots there, it's a pdf.

[Edwin Knoppert]

Btw, this is an older topic.
Would this be true for .NET 2.0 as well?
Bit of a doubt here.

I'm aware that you must be some System admin, of course bugs will follow you for years probably, but your position differs from several other IT people.
But we as software company actually do think twice about sysop's, don't worry

[Edwin Knoppert]

Edwin,

Go to the 'It's free, Download KPL' at the left, then download the 'KPL' slideshow presentation' on the right.
You'll see some screenshots there, it's a pdf.

Hmm, the app itself looks an XP themed app.
However the menu is the neat looking and is probably custom made.
I'm not aware of a native XP way to do this.
Like page 19.
Owner drawn is not difficult, the on top floating look does though.

The language self does not seem to be .NET if you thought so.