.NET Size of frame work? Im feeling worried!!

ricardo · Post by **ricardo** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:35 am

Hi

Im downloading .NET framework to use the Visual Web Development or the VB Development MS is giving for free.

But now im feeling worried (alarmed is more exact word) because this framework looks huuuuge.

Does anybody are as insane as i am and do the same thing? Recommendations? (Cancel button is one alternative i know)

Every new MS development tool will requiere bigger runtimes i guess. VB was not THAT huge...

Joakim Christiansen · Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:52 am

I downloaded "Visual C# 2005 Express Edition Beta 2" and "Microsoft .NET Framework 2.0 SDK Beta 2"
Am I insane?
It's quite cool that MS give this to us for free!

Post by **Dare2** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:55 am

I downloaded all of the express beta languages.

I am insane.

PS: I later uninstalled all of them. They took ages to install and I had difficulty finding the apps buried inside all the documentation. The friendly and simple interface defeated me.

Edit: But not suggesting you stop. My poison may be your meat.

ricardo · Post by **ricardo** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:09 am

When i read the description it says 'lightweight'...

Maybe my english is not good enought, but look at this:

Is this lightweight?

Post by **Dare2** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:17 am

About 98% of that is the verbosity used to clutter up your screen. About 2% is the duck's guts. Just kidding. it might be 97:3

Maybe the lightweight means the actual language is cut down. Only the packaging is heavy.

PS: For windows/web development, I use traditional ASP and a text editor. It does the job, it came with the OS (XP pro).

ricardo · Post by **ricardo** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:17 am

Ok, open champagne!!!!

2 hours later (download take 1 hour and install another), 600 MG of HD space less... i got my first "Hello World from ASP.NET"

*Yes, 600 MG was the lightweight installation, really!

Now my PC is slower than my grandma

Edwin Knoppert · Post by **Edwin Knoppert** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 8:02 am

You are confusing the dotnet (2.0) framework with development tools.
The FW is an ideal thing, it replaces, if you develop dotnet app, the whole winapi.
If there was one complaint over the years, it was about the winapi being difficult.
Of course, now you'll have to learn about the fucntionality in objects.
These are much more logical categorized.

Any simple tool can create dotnet apps, like notepad to write an asp.net website.
However, the force of VS2005 is the cool tooltips and hints during programming.
These enumerate the possible members but *also* tips how to use use them!

So forget about notepad or silly development tools and go for the more expensive one, programming will become so more productive if you use a better tool.

Bloathed?
Well for asp.net, i don't think so, for VB.net, i wouldn't mind since in hte near future the required FW will be present (~22mb)

So distribution of your app will be small.

I ever did a test distribution of a vb.net app, no more target folders, it's just being installed or not.
I like it somehow, why bother asking for a folder?

Don't misunderstand how asp.net works, during development you'll be confronted with slow(er) startup and build's etc..
That's not the issue for the end-user, the FW will compile your code at the latest moment, the next users will benefit.

Trond · Post by **Trond** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 8:38 am

The whole .Net thing is just ridiculous. Confusius says: Those who cancel button click \ will not be fouled by Microsoft's trick.

ricardo · Post by **ricardo** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:18 pm

Edwin Knoppert wrote: Bloathed?
Well for asp.net, i don't think so, for VB.net, i wouldn't mind since in hte near future the required FW will be present (~22mb)

So distribution of your app will be small.

If i develope something in VB.NET (not ASP.NET)... to distribute it... the user need to download whole .NET ?

ricardo · Post by **ricardo** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:19 pm

I ever did a test distribution of a vb.net app, no more target folders, it's just being installed or not.
I like it somehow, why bother asking for a folder?

Yes, maybe MS thinks: "Why bother asking for some file, if we can install 600 MG of runtimes?".

utopiomania · Post by **utopiomania** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 11:21 pm

I installed a free paint program recently (paint.NET) which required the framework to be installed, but
so what ? The whole thing was a 20 meg download or so, and besides I don't think you can avoid it (.NET)
so I don't have any issues with this. You don't need a 600 meg runtime. If you buy a new printer you
probably get it installed if you like it or not.

Edwin Knoppert · Post by **Edwin Knoppert** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 11:55 pm

You people are behind

The dotnet FW (Nov 7, version #2) is the latest 'run-time' for Windows.
It will replace most of the windows api.

A VB.NET or similar application writter will no longer care for ordinary api's.
This is now, in a year it's all accepted.

I quit programming in VB due it's lack of handy winapi inclusion, pointers and some other annoying stuff.
However, i wouldn't mind to get back to a VB.NET if i must.
I simply add some dll's which handle the best parts if i must.

I really wouldn't mind the size, the FW is downloadable and most users seem to have access to internet for downloading it until it's stuffed into some SP.

To be clear, yes if you write a VB.NET app, the en-user might not have support for dotnet, this issue is now becomming a pain again since v2 will be there soon.
Another time-gap unf.

Shannara · Post by **Shannara** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:02 am

.NET is a joke for everything but web development (which is what it was created for ... ). Any MS server software 2003 and above have the .NET framework as part of the OS. As for the insane part. Only those who make the mistake to use .NET for anything BUT web "apps" is insane (IMO).

At work, I use C# for all of it's web "apps", this is required for the job, so I use it. It is an excellent tool for web development, quick and easy to make any kind of web app, even web games. Especially when money is literally no object, so licensing isnt an issue.

But if you are making any client based application/game, .NET is 100% joke and is suicide for all businesses that are not open source or public domain based (or heck, even the viral GPL).

Ive been saying this forever, and any coder who use .NET by either requirement or for pleasure knows this

Anyways, Yep, the runtime is huge as hell but hey ... at least Vista has 2.0 installed by default ..

ricardo · Post by **ricardo** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:27 am

Shannara wrote:.NET is a joke for everything but web development (which is what it was created for ... ). Any MS server software 2003 and above have the .NET framework as part of the OS. As for the insane part. Only those who make the mistake to use .NET for anything BUT web "apps" is insane (IMO).

I guess you are right.

At least, until everybody gets .NET framework installed on his machine, its a suicide trying to develop something using this, except if its web development.

Edwin Knoppert · Post by **Edwin Knoppert** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:07 am

.net might help you running the same app on different windows os's like pda's and so..