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// Splitted from From PowerBasic to PureBasic a reference aid (Kiffi)

Rinzwind wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:05 am PowerBasic ... for some reason bought it years ago (last version too). Then its programmer died sadly and that was it. A end-user bought the rights and then again more silence. There are still fanboys out there on its forum who believe it is still being developed and are waiting for the x64 version. Disillusioning I think.

The website and forum is at least still active (a bit by same users).

I have known the product since the DOS version and have followed its development over many years, but contrary to all myths, the demise of PowerBasic was not only caused by the author himself but also by certain people in the user community. The aggressive attitude of this hard core in their community has also contributed to a lot of users not only leaving the forum but also abandoning the product as a whole in favour of other languages over the years. In addition, the compiler was increasingly watered down with additions, which increasingly damaged its performance. In the DOS era, at least for some time, the compiler was actually the fastest in the world compared to competing products at the time. In later versions there was no longer any trace of this and in the long term one couldn't regain the old market position from the old laurels alone!

To date, all attempts at rescue have failed miserably and some people there seem to be unable to learn from their mistakes or simply lack the will. But the bad karma was also earned through a completely misguided market policy by constantly trying to silence critical voices, simply negating even constructive suggestions and also trying to hold users back with empty promises. One of the best examples of this, at least for a very short time, was the announcement of a Linux version. Practically all active users in the forum at the time were aware of this announcement and also the respective website. Then all of a sudden this site disappeared and all inquiries about it were either simply ignored or, what's worse, the author denied that it ever existed. For some users, this was not only incomprehensible but also an insult to consumers.

The mood in the forum at the time suddenly deteriorated because this behaviour not only provoked open protest, but also some users took the trouble to provide counter-evidence with corresponding screenshots. So what Mr. Zale apparently never understood during his lifetime was that the Internet never "forgets" anything, everything remains somehow always stored somewhere and therefore accessible. In the end, more and more users threw in the towel because they came to the conclusion that the product was not worth the hassle and that there was a much better solution on the market that suited their needs. One of them is certainly PureBasic!

MicroStream wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2023 1:17 pmBut the bad karma was also earned through a completely misguided market policy by constantly trying to silence critical voices, simply negating even constructive suggestions

It has worked to PureBasic's advantage. One of the earliest Visual Designers for PureB, the one Edwin Knoppert released, IIRC, came about because he was being threatened with a lawsuit for producing software for PowerB and having a third party site for PowerB with example code and tutorials.

I was threatened with a lawsuit for reporting a bug more than once. Closed betas will always lead to buggy releases. Bob never learned that. He also never learned that new releases did NOT have to be compatible with legacy versions of Windows. The existing versions were already there for those needing the legacy support.

PowerB for Windows was always trying to play catch up to Windows standards due to many years wasted trying to market it as a DLL builder and mainly targeting VB programmers (based on the snail mail marketing I would get from Bob) who did NOT use DLLs -- they used VBXs and OCXs back in the day. Due to work, I used to get catalogs filled with the latest VBXs/OCXs and never once were DLLs ever a "thing" for VB developers until VB6 came along.

The no vaporware policy was that none of the vaporware mentioned was ever released. New DOS version, Linux version, 64 bit version. Fred has shown what somebody with a good work ethic can accomplish with knowledge, skill and hard work. Watching PureB grow has been amazing.

PowerB has habitually been the best advertisement for PureB that you could ask for. Well, Blitz was darn good advertisement too.

That said, I genuinely like the new owner of PowerB. He is a very good guy and has a solid head on his shoulders. The product itself and its issues are not his fault and it is simply what he inherited when he bought it.

PureB has grown so much, I am not sure how compatible the original reference material is for people looking to move here, but PureB is easy enough to pick up if you have been programming for more than a few years.

I have heard some in the PowerB community say PureB isn't BASIC. That always made me scratch my head because in spite of the name, PowerB isn't really BASIC, it is more based on ALGOL than BASIC.

PureB is fast, widely compatible and kept current with new platforms. More importantly it is cared about and actively developed and supported. You will not go wrong choosing PureB if you are looking to move from any other language.

MicroStream wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2023 1:17 pmThe aggressive attitude of this hard core in their community has also contributed to a lot of users not only leaving the forum but also abandoning the product

I signed up on the PowerBasic forum many years ago and after a simple question from me, as a newbie deciding if the app was for me, I got abused and told I shouldn't be there if I didn't know what I was doing. (Very similar to how StackOverflow treats newbies today). I think my account got banned or deleted soon after; I can't remember now. But I do distinctly remember that it wasn't a nice place to visit.

IMHO, the crowning achievement of PowerB (speaking as somebody who has used it since the Turbo BASIC days) was the book released on it that came with the 2.1 DOS version of PowerB. Very good and comprehensive book and much QB code was easy enough to convert and compile.

@Barry if it makes you feel any better, I had a PowerB section on my BBS back in the early-mid 90s. Bob got banned due to his behavior.

Kuron wrote: Sat Oct 28, 2023 1:30 am I have heard some in the PowerB community say PureB isn't BASIC. That always made me scratch my head because in spite of the name, PowerB isn't really BASIC, it is more based on ALGOL than BASIC.

Ok, let's look at this from a purely technical point of view. How must a real BASIC compiler be structured so that it can be considered as such? Firstly, it must be a proper JIT compiler, secondly, the language's syntax rules must at least conform to the following standards:

ANSI/ISO/IEC Standard for Full BASIC:

• ANSI X3.113-1987 "Programming Languages Full BASIC"
• INCITS/ISO/IEC 10279-1991 (R2005) "Information Technology – Programming Languages – Full BASIC"

ANSI/ISO/IEC Addendum Defining Modules:

• ANSI X3.113 Interpretations-1992 "BASIC Technical Information Bulletin # 1 Interpretations of ANSI 03.113-1987"
• ISO/IEC 10279:1991/ Amd 1:1994 "Modules and Single Character Input Enhancement"

Third, the principles of this language laid down by John G. Kemeny and Thomas E. Kurtz should be strictly adhered to:

1. be easy for beginners to use
2. be a general-purpose language
3. allow advanced features to be added for experts (while keeping the language simple for beginners)
4. be interactive
5. provide clear and friendly error messages
6. respond fast for small programs
7. not require an understanding of computer hardware
8. shield the user from the operating system

If all these points are strictly adhered to, then it is definitely a real BASIC!

So when is it not a true BASIC?
For example, if a cross compiler is used, which uses a translator in advance to translate the source code into something else. When the syntactic rules of the language are not followed and they become inconsistent. When an attempt is made to imitate elements of another language. When the language does not adhere to any standards. When error messages cannot be interpreted clearly and therefore lead to misunderstandings. When the language does not allow modular programming and forces cumbersome structures in the source code. When it's not a general-purpose programming language.

I think that should be enough to clarify for all users and programmers what BASIC is!

Kuron wrote: Sat Oct 28, 2023 1:13 am PowerB has habitually been the best advertisement for PureB that you could ask for.

The pricing was also way over the top. However, I also had the experience that even "Uncle Bob's" wife Vivian was infected by his prepotent behaviour. At the time I noticed that one of the products I had purchased was not up to date and so I contacted her by email after his death to get the link necessary for a download. However, I didn't expect that she would deny me the service I needed for a registered product and instead offer me a completely different one. You can easily imagine how extremely harsh my reaction was, so I would rather not repeat my choice of words at the time.

Luckily for me, I was able to find the necessary link in one of my saved emails and carry out the last update unhindered. The chaotic conditions and the insolence towards customers ultimately sealed the fate of PowerBasic!

Stop attacking a dead person who can't defend himself anymore!

I prefer the short movies idle. 2h50, it is a lil bit too long for me.

Here you have only one minute of one of the strangest objects of our universe : pulsar.

Near such a thing, and looking it, you are caught by a jet behind you, due to the relative physic effect.

Very strange.

@Kuron: It was the PowerBasic community that I was referring to, not Bob personally. That's why I didn't say his name and also why I said it was like StackOverflow, where the community attacks you if you're not very knowledgeable.

Appreciate the heads up about Stack Overflow.

I wrote my message on the bad subject. I am sorry. But, on the fly, I love TB.EXE (TurboBasic).

I worked again on it, few years ago. The break was in the syntax and the features in pureBasic which misses on an old language. (the structures, first...)

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