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http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/furth ... -threshold

Metro apps running in windows on the desktop. As you can today with third-party utilities such as ModernMix, the next version of Windows will let users optionally run Metro apps in floating windows on the desktop.

Slowing folding phone/tablet apps back inside a subnormal desktop experience when running on a PC, like it should have been from the start. Subnormal is still better then useless and certainly less irritating. It makes sense on so many levels is incredible they didn't do it right away.

Start menu. After bringing back the Start button in Windows 8.1, Microsoft will take the next logical step in the next Windows version and make the Start menu available as an option. It's possible this will appear only on those product versions that support the desktop.

Start button will be back for the second time. The first try was with Windows 8.1, but to do it right at the first shot was probably too difficult.

All in all, pretty pathetic after all the fanfare and the initial no compromise attitude which followed the launch of Window 8.
Again, probably too difficult to listen to your customers from the start or to think ahead just a little.

But at least they are doing something and acknowledging the original plan was faulty.

luis wrote:But at least they are doing something and acknowledging the original plan was faulty.

Great news!
But as you pointed out, too late.

I work in a computer store and no product has more dissatisfied customers, I actually feel sad for many of them (because their new laptop is often thought of as more hassle than useful or fun). As a salesman it is hard to sell.

...it's part of the in-house politics, a small victory for the non Ballmer side. The new CEO will be able to become a business saving hero, make sweeping common sense changes that practically anybody could do.

Specialization and ubiquity has screwed Microsoft when it should have been their world to dominate.
Meaning: you cannot deliver a PC with a bulky OS to every application.
Just a few OS cases...
UserCase: do work or school related stuff
desktop still best approach but Windows 8 not well received
trying to capture or change user experience by merging desktop and tablet gui's
UserCase: read stuff - books, email, browser pages
eReaders and tablets win here
you would think Apple would win here too, but their pricing limits adoption
delivery of media and low power high readability helped Amazon dominate
UserCase: listen to stuff
audio entertainment can be had in every terminal with desktop OS near bottom
best opportunity was standardizing audio formats and delivery, but Apple beat them
UserCase: play games
realized it had to be a custom box and still 2nd place to Sony.
UserCase: mobile phone
biggest loss since many years to innovate within the Palm->iOS->Android smartphone timeline
kinda silly they now own Nokia which also squandered its mobile lead.
way smarter was to purchase Palm years ago and crank webOS
UserCase: drive somewhere
haha, does anyone dare start their car by booting any version of Windows?

Microsoft is a sperm whale in a sea of sharks and dolphins and will always struggle to navigate new markets and sustain existing ones.

Jim seems a bit miffed.

"I am logged in for the first time on a Windows 8 machine

And let me tell you, it is GARBAGE. The tabs are gone, every window opens up full screen and I cannot switch tabs between pages. My first impression was that of a computer, the ADAM computer released by Coleco complete with printer, monitor, and processor for $400 USD in 1983. It has THAT type of "wow, this is cool" marketing push behind it, this is a STUPID O.S. that is obviously useless for productivity. This is a modern rendition of a 30 year throwback.

And a lot of computer illiterates think it is cool. I remember the first time I saw this OS it was at an office supply store and it had a Smartphone look to it and was absolutely aggravating to try to get any of the laptops that had it installed to do anything. But the salesman, a 19 year old kid who probably never owned a computer thought it was WAY COOL, and when I tried to explain to him in my broken Spanish that the primary purpose of a computer is for work and not to play games on, he looked blank eyed, like "what are you talking about, you mean you actually TYPE on a computer? What games do you have?

Now that I have actually logged in with one and used it, well, I got this typed but I had a difficult time getting here and short of shutting the browser down I won't be able to do anything else now that this editing window has consumed every last option with no way out. I have to log out to even check a different mailbox.

And that gets me to a rant - It is obvious that Microsoft has set a goal of stupefying and disabling the potential of computers we once had, and drive everyone into the cloud. And I advise everyone to NEVER give up their local hard disk, powerful processors and local apps because if you do, you have handed power over everything to the elite. This is obviously the current goal, and I advise people to keep ahold of their powerful processors and never settle for remote apps, storage, and PAGES THAT OPEN AND CONSUME THE ENTIRE FREAKING DESKTOP, PAGES THAT CANNOT BE SCALED TO CONSUME ONLY A PORTION OF THE SCREEN. What on EARTH would anyone do with a resolution beyond 640X480, similar to what the Coleco ADAM had, when all you can do with an OS is open everything full screen? Sort of makes having extra screen real estate pointless."

More reason for me to feel good about not falling for the hype again.
I love my Saucy.

luis wrote:http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/furth ... -threshold

Start menu. After bringing back the Start button in Windows 8.1, Microsoft will take the next logical step in the next Windows version and make the Start menu available as an option. It's possible this will appear only on those product versions that support the desktop.

Start button will be back for the second time. The first try was with Windows 8.1, but to do it right at the first shot was probably too difficult.

You know the differences between a button and a menu, don't you?

After Windows 8.0 users asked for the start button to come back. Microsoft delivered with Windows 8.1.
After Windows 8.1 users asking for the start menu to come back. Microsoft will deliver it with Windows 8.2.

heartbone wrote:Jim seems a bit miffed.

"I am logged in for the first time on a Windows 8 machine"

And let me tell you, it is GARBAGE. The tabs are gone, every window opens up full screen and I cannot switch tabs between pages.

What is this user talking about? What Tabs are gone? Every window is open in full screen mode?

Really?

Windows 8.1 is not much different in desktop mode than Windows 7, but has many internal changes.
The fullscreen Apps and the Microsoft AppStore are completely new additions to Windows 8.

If you don't use the AppStore und Apps, I can't see any annoying differences to Windows 7,
and I think some people just don't get it.

I understood some people wanted the start button back. The start button was in the same edge
on the screen, but it is better if you actually see it as a real button. Ordinary people don't use
the Windows key on the keyboard, they use the mouse only. So that's OK, and it came back with Windows 8.1,
which is a free upgrade to Windows 8.0.

I can understand the start menu comes back with Windows 8.2. I don't use the start menu myself,
because I'm using AppBars (Toolbars that are docked to a side of the screen) for many, many years.
The start menu sucks anyway. It is difficult to browse if you have installed many applications.

Same for Windows Explorer. It is just an rudimentary tool for ordinary users. I replaced it with Directory Opus,
the same thing that gives me the toolbar and menu on the side of my desktop.

Browsing the start menu is much slower than accessing all installed programs with an AppBar on the
side of the screen. Some old screenshots how it can look with Directory Opus and its AppBars:
- DirectoryOpus1.png
- DirectoryOpus2.png
- DirectoryOpus3.png
(Opus is completely customizable, so it can look completely different for other users)

Win8.1 is capable to boot directly to desktop. In desktop mode, I don't see much differences.
It has a different GUI design, like nearly every windows had its different design (Win95, ... WinXP, ... Win7, ... Win8),
but that never has been a big issue. Maybe it was an issue when we switched to XP for the first time,
because XP had this kindergarten colors and design, 12 years ago.

Beside that, desktop mode works same way as before Windows 8.

I don't understand the point of this complainers. Is it just to complain about something, or just about everything?
We are over 7 billion peoples in this world, and there are for sure some million peoples that just don't get it and complain
about everything. We all know such people, and they can be very annoying. Who cares what such people have to say?
Just because they can tell the whole world what they think (thanks to internet), doesn't mean it is smart what they say.
I think we can just ignore such people. No need to quote them.

Jim can stay with his XP forever, but he should just shut up if he doesn't get it.
But what Jim has to tell to the rest of the world is soooo important... his site is mirrored at least 2 times. LOL

Yes, I came from winXP-pro,
upgraded to win8 - win8.1
and back to win XP-Pro

hope win8.2 will do ...

Remark: My desktop is NOT a tablet ...

Danilo wrote:I don't understand the point of this complainers. Is it just to complain about something, or just about everything?

I think he didn't realize that there is the regular desktop too.

Granted, I had to set up a few things in Windows 8.1 to make it work as I want it to (however, no additional modification software needed!):
Booting to the desktop, same background for metro and desktop, open images, pdfs, music etc. on the desktop and so on. I only use the metro screen as an enhanced start menu and for quick things such as looking up the weather and news (live tiles are great for that). Everything else is done on the desktop as always. Now it pretty much feels like an improved Windows 7...

There are a few minor things that annoy me like hell, namely settings
that need to be accessed in the metro screen and some of those stupid "flat GUI"
dialogs, such as the one to choose the application for opening certain file types.

It's just really dumb and annoying, but other than that...yeah, it is pretty much the
same except that it is better "under the hood".

Danilo wrote:You know the differences between a button and a menu, don't you?

After Windows 8.0 users asked for the start button to come back. Microsoft delivered with Windows 8.1.
After Windows 8.1 users asking for the start menu to come back. Microsoft will deliver it with Windows 8.2.

Very misleading there.
The users simply and naturally wanted the functionality back.

heartbone wrote:Jim seems a bit miffed.

"I am logged in for the first time on a Windows 8 machine"

And let me tell you, it is GARBAGE. The tabs are gone, every window opens up full screen and I cannot switch tabs between pages.

What is this user talking about? What Tabs are gone? Every window is open in full screen mode?

Really?

Windows 8.1 is not much different in desktop mode than Windows 7, but has many internal changes.
The fullscreen Apps and the Microsoft AppStore are completely new additions to Windows 8.

If you don't use the AppStore und Apps, I can't see any annoying differences to Windows 7,
and I think some people just don't get it.

I understood some people wanted the start button back. The start button was in the same edge
on the screen, but it is better if you actually see it as a real button. Ordinary people don't use
the Windows key on the keyboard, they use the mouse only. So that's OK, and it came back with Windows 8.1,
which is a free upgrade to Windows 8.0.

I can understand the start menu comes back with Windows 8.2. I don't use the start menu myself,
because I'm using AppBars (Toolbars that are docked to a side of the screen) for many, many years.
The start menu sucks anyway. It is difficult to browse if you have installed many applications.

Same for Windows Explorer. It is just an rudimentary tool for ordinary users. I replaced it with Directory Opus,
the same thing that gives me the toolbar and menu on the side of my desktop.

Browsing the start menu is much slower than accessing all installed programs with an AppBar on the
side of the screen. Some old screenshots how it can look with Directory Opus and its AppBars:
- DirectoryOpus1.png
- DirectoryOpus2.png
- DirectoryOpus3.png
(Opus is completely customizable, so it can look completely different for other users)

Opus shmopus. Why do their "improvements" seem to remove desired functionality?

e.g. >> the excellent Windows Toolbars they removed from Vista,
>> they canned the navigate up one directory level button in the file selector in Windows 7,
>> they killed the Start in Windows 8!

IMO the old Windows XP Toolbar (and now the UBUNTU Unity sidebar),
is the best expression of the program icon concept ever executed.

Below is a screenshot of the rightmost 150 pixels of my desktop from last year.


Here I agree with you Danilo...
What could possibly be wrong with easily accessed icons that can be single clicked to start an application?

If you still run XP, then create a new Toolbar (right mouse click on the Windows Taskbar and select Toolbars > New Toolbar... from the popup) from a folder populated with program shortcuts and/or folders, and then drag it to the side of your desktop screen to dock it. (Now do you grok what your Opus Schmopus AppBar replaces?)

The graphic above shows three Toolbars.
The top one is a Toolbar of the My Computer window, the middle one is of my Stuff partition, and the bottom is of a folder containing games shortcuts.
(Notice how Microsoft nicely setup the Toolbar environment and removed the arrows from the shortcut icons?)
A Toolbar can have large or small icons, and display a title or not.
They can be docked by dragging together.
From the desktop, all of these folders and programs on the Toolbar are always instantly accessible with a single mouse click.
Folders in the toolbars expand when activated.
All this is in addition to desktop shortcuts and the start button.
Now that is some very handy XP functionality that I've used for years, which I really miss in later versions of Windows.

If Microsoft hadn't removed that functionality from Windows in Vista, then you wouldn't have had to pay $50 to restore it Danilo.

Jim can stay with his XP forever, but he should just shut up if he doesn't get it.

You can stay with your Window$ forever and perhaps you should take your own advice.
Now I still need to run XP to do a few things that I have not learned to do in Saucy like record off the sound card,
but for the most part I have moved on to a better experience and it's not from Microsoft.
Perhaps Jim doesn't know about the alternative.
After his rant, he'll probably get some constructive feedback that he would not have gotten if he had not shouted out.

But what Jim has to tell to the rest of the world is soooo important... his site is mirrored at least 2 times. LOL

You can snipe all that you want, but his site has some good things on it.

> http://danilo.purearea.net/DirectoryOpus3.png

Hang on... what's this "DaniloBasic" all about?

luis wrote: Start button will be back for the second time. The first try was with Windows 8.1, but to do it right at the first shot was probably too difficult.

danilo wrote: You know the differences between a button and a menu, don't you?

After Windows 8.0 users asked for the start button to come back. Microsoft delivered with Windows 8.1.
After Windows 8.1 users asking for the start menu to come back. Microsoft will deliver it with Windows 8.2.

Yes, I know the difference between a button and a menu, and I'm also capable of grasping the obvious
When users asked for the start button back they weren't asking for a random button with a word on it, they wanted the usual "START BUTTON" they were accustomed to, with the menu attached and the usual features.
Wasn't clear enough by reading all the noise made by people about this on the Internet ? If not I'm glad to have clarified that for you, irrespectively of the terminology used.

If at Microsoft they vaguely heard about the complaints without actually reading about them and they just heard the word "button" and really thought their customers just wanted a button, then they are just a bunch of idiots. I don't think that's what happened.

And now with 8.2 they are finally giving up, or so it seems.

So I wholeheartedly stand behind my original statement above.

Why they think, there are so many users of 'Classic Start Menu'
at least thats what I'm using.

Yes, I know the difference between a button and a menu, and I'm also capable of grasping the obvious

With windows, the start menu was always part of the start button. It has always been one and the same since it was first introduced. Windows 8 was the first to remove the traditional start menu from the start button.

My complaint when it comes to the start button-menu is with Windows 7, as that is when the look and functionality really changed for me. I did not like the new start menu introduced in Windows 7. The traditional start menu made it so easy to keep track of a LOT of installed software. However, Windows 7 allowed you to use the traditional start menu you were used to via a simple setting, so it was really a non issue and I was happily using Windows 7 until my laptop was stolen.

Been on Windows 8.1, and it's great, after start button is back .

The OS itself is faster, and memory consuption is lower than any other (400mb!)

I even got used to metro switching for quick program loading, it's faster than menu surfing.