PureBasic Forums - English

This has pretty much turned into a 'Linux Free For All' so I've renamed the thread...

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Well, consider me a dummy, I understand pretty close to nothing when it comes to Linux.

Nevertheless, I want to learn a bit. Hey, at least I am able to install Linux Mint Xcfe next to Windows (not that this took any brainpower on my side, mint you).

But... after playing a bit with Linux, I am not convinced Linux is ready 'for the masses' unless pre-installed. It's just not user friendly. Compare it with Android: download something, and there's an icon on your phone / tablet. Click on it, it runs.

I was hoping Linux would have reached a similar level these days, but I guess not so. Still... I'm trying and would like some help. Perhaps my struggle can help someone else with getting to grips with Linux, and the ultimate goal: programming in PureBasic under Linux.

So, here's question number 1: how to get tightvnc working under Linux Mint? I managed to install it, ran it once to get a config file, and have managed to connect to it from a Windows box using the suggested x.x.x.x:5901 but then I end up with an empty screen with a simple single X and nothing more... What am I doing wrong?

(Doesn't have to be TightVNC, any other VNC would do as well. The client will be a Windows box in this case.)

blueznl wrote:But... after playing a bit with Linux, I am not convinced Linux is ready 'for the masses' unless pre-installed. It's just not user friendly.

I'd guess that Windows, too, is not user friendly and ready for the masses unless it's pre-installed.

Six years ago I converted my company from Windows to Linux (Ubuntu). It took about a month to learn the basics, and a year to feel comfortable with it. We're running old DOS applications in VirtualBox, our Windows apps with Wine, and developing cross-platform apps with PB. We now use Mint (Cinnamon).

We certainly didn't "play with Linux for a bit", then throw up our hands in dismay and complain that it's not friendly.

I have no sympathy for your "predicament".

Very constructive and helpful. It provided a lot of insight. I am so much better now, thank you. This absolutely helped me. I defnitely appreciate your kind of understanding, the great compassion you show, and the clear proof of the limits of your never ending drive to help the community. My pathetic struggle has become a roaring flight towards success, my ineptitude has been dwarfed by your wise teachings. I am but a mere worm who is unworthy to crawl in your divine shadow, even licking the green mold between your toes is above me. I am sure you are unaware that you have again proven how worthwhile and essential this kind of reply is to all of us. You are the best of all, what else is left for me to thank you. Thank you.

blueznl wrote:Thank you.

You're welcome! Glad to be of assistance.

@blueznl

Just to show that I'm not completely heartless, here's a clue.

In your Mint menu is an icon for the Software Manager. Click the said icon, enter your system password, and select preferences. If the "search while typing" entry has a check mark, remove it.

In the upper right corner of the Software Manager screen is a search field. Type "tightvnc" then press enter. You will get about 4 results. The most popular one is listed first. Double-click it. You might want to check the other entries too.

Software Manager entries have product information, reviews, and a link to the product website.

If you want to install a package, click "Install". The package and all it's dependencies are installed. Later, if you wish to uninstall the package and its dependencies, click "Uninstall".

The Software Manager is your friend -- just like Android. Learn its ways.

> I am not convinced Linux is ready 'for the masses' unless pre-installed.

I'm also a Linux "dummy" but found installing Ubuntu itself to be easy.

> It's just not user friendly.

I totally agree with this aspect. Once Ubuntu was installed, I found that
I couldn't watch MPG videos or do other basic computer stuff, which was
shocking. I tried installing an MPG codec, but it was so complicated that
I swore off Linux forever. There certainly wasn't some Software Manager
that made installing the codec easy. Also, the fact that people have to
even explain about a Software Manager is proof that it's too complicated.
Software should work intuitively; you shouldn't be needing some old guy
on a forum somewhere telling you, step-by-step, how to install stuff.

In my example, I should've been able to do a Google search for an MPG
codec for Linux, download it, double-click it, and it's installed. Just like
on Windows. Until that day comes, Linux will never become mainstream.

PB wrote:Also, the fact that people have to even explain about a Software Manager is proof that it's too complicated.

Well, that has to be the most lame piece of reasoning I ever heard. Anyone with no prior experience of Windows, Mac, or an electric alarm clock, would be just as baffled.

Buy a book, get on the net, educate yourself, experiment. In a few days you'll know all about Software Manager, configuring your system settings, setting up dual boot systems, using VM's, and the mysteries of the "Ubuntu Restricted Extras". Had you done even a small amount of research, you would have found that most drivers and codecs are automatically installed. However, a few others like some audio formats, the Flash plugin, Microsoft fonts, etc, that are not open source, can be installed separately via the Software Manager. No need of Google, and no need to download and install stuff manually.

It's far easier and more intuitive than Windows, and you don't even have to know anything about Linux internals. That's why I bet my company and dumped Windows in favour of Linux. And that's why I have no patience with people who say that Linux is flakey, difficult to learn, and user unfriendly.

But if you don't want to make the effort, don't complain -- and certainly don't ask for help.

Maybe this is a good thread to ask this. I downloaded Linux Mint (Cinnamon) x86 the other day and burned the iso to a usb drive. I drove around in it for a while and decided to install it beside my Windows 8. Ran into a problem that I don't know how to solve. Linux doesn't have a driver for my wifi adapter (Broadcom BCM943228HMB) and the setup is telling me I have to connect via LAN to get the driver and continue the installation. Fine, but I don't have a LAN connection available, just wifi. I searched for a downloadable Linux driver on the web but so far no luck. Any suggestions?

> Anyone with no prior experience of Windows, Mac, or an electric alarm clock, would be just as baffled.

Yes, but that's not the usual case with Linux. People are usually trying Linux from another
OS, so it stands to reason that Linux should be as easy to use as where they came from.

Look at netmaestro's post above... it proves my point. He also has to post online to find
an answer to his problem. Where's the user-friendliness and ease from Linux for him?
I certainly wouldn't class netmaestro as clueless, either. What hope does the general
public have when trying to give Linux a go, if even the experts have to ask for help?

netmaestro wrote:I searched for a downloadable Linux driver on the web but so far no luck. Any suggestions?

I am not sure what you searched for or what you used to search. I personally use Bing because it gives me what I am looking for. I searched for:

Broadcom BCM943228HMB linux driver

This was the first link listed in the results:

http://www.broadcom.com/support/802.11/linux_sta.php

Is this of any help?

netmaestro wrote:Any suggestions?

Only that you should find someone with a LAN that you can connect to while you do the install.

You're in a chicken and egg situation. You need the driver to get on the net, but you need to be on the net to get the driver.

Although the initial part of the installation is done from the original ISO, the main part of the install requires stuff to be downloaded from the net. The ISO is fairly generic and doesn't have all the drivers and programs for a full install or for oddball hardware. However, the LAN drivers work fine and your wifi driver will get sucked in with all the other stuff.

@Kuron,
Thanks! That looks promising, I'll try it tomorrow and report results here.

netmaestro wrote:@Kuron,
Thanks! That looks promising, I'll try it tomorrow and report results here.

No problem. I hope it works for you.

PB wrote:People are usually trying Linux from another OS, so it stands to reason that Linux should be as easy to use as where they came from.

If I had never used Windows before, I would find it to be similar to Linux, but very different. And initially, I would find it difficult to use. I would need to know how to download and install applications. I would need to know about navigating the file system and where I could put things. So I would need to read about it, and play with it, and learn about its ways.

Over the years I've picked up a lot of useful information that I'm more than happy to share. But I like to think that the one's seeking advice have made an attempt to figure things out for themselves.

Anyone with no prior experience of Windows, Mac, or an electric alarm clock, would be just as baffled.

That is very true. Also, if you have become accustomed to the way something works (e.g. Windows) then a product that might be equally good but works in a different way is more baffling - instead of trying to get it to work the way it was designed to work, we subconsciously try to get it to do things the way we are used to.

There are things that are simply to poorly designed of course, many many things