PureBasic Forums - English

Fred wrote:Ok, so let's close that. It was the last bug really worrying me, so 5.10 is coming !

I need one of those jumping up and down smilies..

Subject wrote:Is today the day...?

Never on wednesday

netmaestro wrote:

Fred wrote:Ok, so let's close that. It was the last bug really worrying me, so 5.10 is coming !

I need one of those jumping up and down smilies..

Do I understand it correctly, not all known bugs get fixed before 5.10 final?

So we have to wait for PB 6.0 to get bug fixes for everything not marked as "DONE" yet?
If so, what is the planned release date for PB 6.0? (round about, 6 month or 12 month from now on?)

Hehe, today is 14/2. Fred is busy with his lover.

Cheers,

sec wrote:Hehe, today is 14/2. Fred is busy with his lover.
Cheers,

What ?????? Fred have a lover !!!!! it's impossible...fred have not the right to love other thing that PB
Aaaaaaah yeees !!!! you have right !!! i found her on the web !!

It's surely her..i don't know why...but i think it's her, a beautiful princess for the king of PB
It' a Pretty Beautiful woman !!!



May be I be invited to the wedding...

KCC, you are just incredible! XD

Thanks a lot SHIELD
But it's FRED the incredible
Me i'm just the jester of the incredible king of PB

Nice funny pictures, KCC.

But I repeat my question, as it is not very funny for me:

Fred wrote:Ok, so let's close that. It was the last bug really worrying me, so 5.10 is coming !

Do I understand it correctly, not all known bugs get fixed before 5.10 final?

So we have to wait for PB 6.0 to get bug fixes for everything not marked as "DONE" yet?
If so, what is the planned release date for PB 6.0? (round about, 6 month or 12 month from now on?)


I am running a business, and I need to know if I can count on PureBasic for doing so. I just can't tell
my customers there are bugs in PureBasic that get fixed in 1 year from now on, or maybe they don't get fixed at all
or maybe they fix it in 5 years.
How reliable is PureBasic for business use? Can I count on it, or do I have to wait many month or years for bug fixes,
if there are serious issues found within PureBasic itself?

Let's they there is a Windows application written with PureBasic. It was written with VB6 before and was ported
to PureBasic on Windows over time. My plan is to target MacOS X in the future too, so 50.000+ customers have more choices.

I need a reliable system, something that I can count on, because my clients/customers are doctors
and one of the requirements for my software is to run absolutely stable on the clients PCs or MACs.

I tested my Windows version, which does not use any WinAPI, to compile on Linux last weekend, and it compiles OK without
debugger. Everything runs fine on Windows and Linux. If I compile on Linux with enabled debugger, the whole IDE and Debugger
are freezing somewhere in the middle of the application, but without debugger enabled everything works fine.
It is a first hint that the Linux version of PB is not 100% compatible to PB on Windows, at least for the debugger part.

So there is hope, even if the debugger freezes. But my real target is MacOS X, and I want it to run it on at least
MacOS X and Windows without bugs, without memory leaks.

And *IF* I find a bug on any of the systems, I need to get PureBasic bug fixes as fast as possible. 2 weeks is OK,
4 weeks is the limit.
Waiting 6 month or 12 month for a bug fix is impossible, in this case I can't count on PureBasic for business use,
and need to look for a better, more reliable software that I can count on.
I have always found serious bugs within PureBasic, every time I started a bigger project and used all available features.
It was annoying as a hobby, but this time I need to get serious.

I can't tell my customers that there is a problem with the development environment I am using, so they have to wait
a few month for a fix. They will look for another, more reliable software. In the meantime my business will loose tons of money,
because the PureBasic developers don't pay me for 8 hours of bug-searching within their product. To be serious, I already invested
many hours in my last bug finding session, and nobody is paying me for the lost time. My wife asked me why I work for free for many hours,
just to find bugs in the development environment I am using.

If I rewrite my software to work around known PB bugs, I loose money again, because nobody pays me for the work
of rewriting a big system, which could take 1 week or more, just as workaround for PB bugs.

So please, don't make fun out of it. It is an serious issue for me, and I need to know if I can REALLY count on PureBasic
for SERIOUS business development in the future, or is it still just a fun project for the developers of PureBasic? Get serious or stop it, please.

If PureBasic is not reliable and serious enough for big business development, just say so. Please be honest, it is important for some of your customers.

You get money for your software written with the Pure Basic deveolper tools why not also spend money for your important bug fixes too?
Best way will be: Tell your bug as a private mail and Fred will tell you how much you have to pay for a fix in a shorter time.

Danilo wrote: Do I understand it correctly, not all known bugs get fixed before 5.10 final?

I don't remember a release where ALL the pending bugs were corrected before a final, so this should not come as a surprise.

The desire to never release a version until all the known bugs has been fixed has been already expressed many times in the past by various users, their requests are somewhere here in the forum.

One at random: http://www.purebasic.fr/english/viewtop ... 18#p362718

I would like stability and reliability over new features BTW.

But in the last period the number of fixed bugs has grown a lot higher than in recent history (probably because Fred has come back working full time on PB). The situation is a lot better now compared to other moments in the PB's history.
So why, since you are not a new user, are you raising the problem now of all the moments in time ?

If PureBasic is not reliable and serious enough for big business development

I think one should be able to answer this question by himself after spending some time in the forum and using the language. Why you should care about an answer on this point from Fred or Freak ? It would be an opinion, not a fact. Use your judgement.
The right question anyway is "for my needs/requirements" not "big business development" or whatever.

IceSoft wrote:You get money for your software written with the Pure Basic deveolper tools why not also spend money for your important bug fixes too?
Best way will be: Tell your bug as a private mail and Fred will tell you how much you have to pay for a fix in a shorter time.

It shouldn't be a problem, if it works like this. But seriously, it is the first time I read about this possibility. Is it a common suggestion, or
is it just coming from a troll user? As I said before, I need serious answers, not funny kid's answers.

If I have a problem with Intel C++ compiler or Microsoft VC++ compiler, I can contact support for free. They will start an investigation instantly
and provide a bug-fix as soon as possible. It is what we call support. I am used to it.
So if we need to pay PB developers for getting fast bug fixes, it should be mentioned somewhere within the manual. I didn't find something
about it in the manual, so what you are saying is very new to me, after using PB for more than 10 years...

Danilo wrote:My plan is to target MacOS X in the future too

For OS X things really have improved a lot.
It now supports Cocoa and 64 bit applications, Fred has fixed a lot of bugs and it's great that it now comes with a form designer.

Always the same rant from you Danilo, seems like things never really changes. Hopefully, most users are not like you, and they get they professional job done, with PureBasic. And please don't compare PB and VC++, to have gold support you have to spend a lot of money. If you really need a bug fix because it's a show stopper for you, you can contact me and we can find a deal. Some companies did that before and it worked well. As I have the feeling this discussion will be endless, i'm locking the subject.

A final note on guarantees (sorry for reopening the topic):

If you want guarantees you have to get a support contract. It is common for such contracts to contain clauses about maximum response times to bug fixes and such. However, this is not free. It will cost you money on an ongoing basis. Guarantees are never free. Even with software for big businesses where a license can easily cost half a million euros and more, a 3 year support contract is usually much more expensive than that (even if nothing big happens during that time!).

Danilo wrote:If I have a problem with Intel C++ compiler or Microsoft VC++ compiler, I can contact support for free. They will start an investigation instantly
and provide a bug-fix as soon as possible. It is what we call support. I am used to it.

Sure, but they don't give you a guaranteed response time for a fix. For that you have to pay. It is the same here. You can get free support as well, but there are no guarantees.

Danilo wrote:So if we need to pay PB developers for getting fast bug fixes, it should be mentioned somewhere within the manual. I didn't find something
about it in the manual, so what you are saying is very new to me, after using PB for more than 10 years...

The "Terms And Conditions" in the manual state this:

This program is provided "AS IS". Fantaisie Software are NOT responsible for any damage (or damages) attributed to PureBasic. You are warned that you use PureBasic at your own risk. No warranties are implied or given by Fantaisie Software or any representative.

In short: "no guarantees". That is what you get when you buy the PB package. (Btw, this sentence is pretty much a standard in ANY end user license. PB is not special in this case). We try to provide good support through this forum and also via email if needed, but as other companies do as well: we make no promises.

However, its a free world and you are always free to negotiate a contract for different conditions in private. If the price is right, Fred might even sign it and you have your guarantees. Complete with the possibility to sue if things are not delivered as agreed.

This is the serious answer: If you want guarantees you have to negotiate a contract and pay. This is how the business world works.

But as Fred pointed out, there are businesses that have used PB successfully without such extra contracts and without having to pay extra money. As long as you can live without the absolute guarantees, we try to provide good support as much as we can for free.