PureBasic Forums - English

Even old hands at BASIC still ask that question. What. IS. The Best. BASIC? And the
answer usually is , the one you know the most about. But here are a few points to
consider:

(1) What is your need (or interest)? A good BASIC is one that really helps gets you there.
(2) How comfortable are you with the methods of learning and degree of documentation?
[PureBasic is actually pretty good in this department, but startup is a bit uncertain]

My advice is, don't put off learning a BASIC just because you aren't sure yet if it is the
right one for you. Get started, and let what follows guide you on further.

PureBasic is highly rated because it goes at four Operating Systems on fairly equal terms.
It's goal is to provided about the same degree of functionality for each of them. If you
learn to program for one of them, you are not far from writing programs for all of them.

But there is a down side to this: You don't maximize the potential for any one of the four
Operating Systems. That's because they are not alike, and a language like PureBasic has
to settle for even or common ground. You can do a lot with PureBasic, but you have to
work at gaining that extra degree of functionality for a specific Operating System.

Windows is the only one I know anything about programming for. Windows has been
paramount in my live. I'm moving off Windows by stages, so PureBasic has the attraction
of me of also working with Linux, my next major stop. A shift is inevitable in my life.
That makes something like PureBasic important in that respect. But while I am with
Windows, I want to make good use of my resources. That means writing my own
Procedures where I have to, and incorporating calls to the Windows APIs, which are
documented functions intended to be used by application developers. I also search out
code examples or snippets where others have gotten there before me, and copy their
code into a file for later examination and reuse. There is nothing wrong with borrowing
code in this manner. That's what it was published for.

How do you gain significant improvement for an Operating System that can enhance any
program? Using the methods described above, you put what you want to use into what
is called an Include file, then you add a statement to your new programs where they
include that file as well. By "include", it just means the contents of the Include file are
treated as though copied into your new program at the point where the IncludeFile()
statement appears.

There are two types of extreme readers of forum posts. On one hand, you have the
total beginner, who benefits when such things are put out in such informative ways. On
the other extreme, you have the thorough expert that hates to read through material
that he already knows in depth. I hope this helps the first extreme, and my apologies
to the other extreme for what they will consider a lengthy and wordy post.

The best basic language is the one you like best.

oldefoxx, do you check anything? actually you are posting in PureBasic » General Discussion.

@ any mod: please move this thread to Off Topic, better delete this wishi washi threat and do what other boards did in the past: kick this spamer from the forum.

oldefoxx wrote: (You may not agree with what I say, but it will make you think).

No it doesn't - it makes my head hurt.

Please give the younger members of these forums some credit for knowing about the things of which you speak. Your diatribes are giving us "old timers" a bad name.

As ancient Gods, we may know everything there is to know about programming, but it's tedious and impolite to drone on at length about it.

Josh wrote:do what other boards did in the past: kick this spamer from the forum.

Why such hostility? He's made some posts, arguably in topics where they may not have been best placed, but "kick him from the forum"?

Lighten up a bit. Live and let live:)

Well, I know which group some of you fall in, that's for sure. You might be surprised
at how much a lot of "young" people don't know when it comes to programming.
Game play, Yes. Programming, No. And they have to start somewhere.

My purpose in putting it under General Discussions is because indirectly it was PB
related. PureBasic is weak on some of the fine points of programming in a specific
OS environmnet, but you can make up for that with a band of procedures and the
concept of an Include file. That makes it more specific to that environment.

There are other BASIC products out there that provide separate compilers for each
OS, possibly charging you for each version as well. The idea is that with the right
compiler, you are set for that OS. Some people see it that they only need one
compiler because they are only going to work with one Operating System. Everybody
has their own mind set in this regard.

What I see as being beneficial to PureBasic is to provide Include files that cover most
of the sought-after added features for a given OS. Maybe add an Include Files category
to the forums here, where people can submit their own or download others.

juror wrote:

Josh wrote:do what other boards did in the past: kick this spamer from the forum.

Why such hostility? He's made some posts, arguably in topics where they may not have been best placed, but "kick him from the forum"?

Lighten up a bit. Live and let live:)

My, and to think I have a grandson with the name "Josh". Yes, I've been removed from two other boards, or
"groups" would be more accurate. I challenged the creator of HotBasic to fix some limitations and problems I
found in that language. He accused me of being high on something, then dropped my membership from the
groups when I would not back off. I backed myself off PowerBasic after some run-ins with its top hand, a man
well known for having a sour disposition and a strong sense of paranoia. That was my call.

Neither has anything to do with PureBasic, except that they finally brought me here. I don't set out to target a
language for destruction, but when I find something other than it should be, I am going to speak out about it.

PureBasic doesn't rate deep criticism at this point, but the attitude of some people on these forums sure leave
a lot to be desired.

oldefoxx wrote:Neither has anything to do with PureBasic, except that they finally brought me here. I don't set out to target a
language for destruction, but when I find something other than it should be, I am going to speak out about it.

PureBasic doesn't rate deep criticism at this point, but the attitude of some people on these forums sure leave
a lot to be desired.

Fred seems to have reasonably thick skin when it comes to knocking his compiler--certainly thicker than Freak--as far as tolerance for banning goes. He's put up with some grief from me that (from what I hear) Bob Z would be unlikely to tolerate--although I have gone back and deleted most of my critical posts. I think it will take a lot to get yourself banned here. On the other hand, I think Fred does not pay much attention to my requests for information or wish lists, either, so I guess there is more than one way to "ban" a user...

BTW, your posts are so long I don't think I have made it through an entire one, except the one preceding this post. You must have too much free time...

Likely so, as far as too much time. On the other hand, maybe not time enough. There are
elements of PureBasic that I really like, others that you can shrug about, and a problem with
how to find the right function for the job? Finding a way to get the passed parameters was
not easy. Other BASICs refer to this as COMMAND$(), COMMAND$, or COMMANDLINE$. With
PureBasic it is ProgramParameters() and CountProgramParameters() Workable once you have
them, but a dickens to find.

When someone is looking for help, how you search can be important. The reward at the end
of the search can be unexpected: You may find example code there that you can copy and
paste into a file, then give it a try yourself. That's not always the case, which is why I say it
is unexpected.

If you are coming from another BASIC (or another language in general), you should like the
fact that the syntax checker will normally put what you enter into a preferred case. If you see
ltrim( suddenly become LTrim(, you must have gotten that much right. It helps. It also means
you can try words or terms that work elsewhere and see if they work in PureBasiic. You try
instr( and it stays instr( you get the idea that it is not in the PureBasic vocabulary. When you
search for its replacement, it takes some looking to find FindString( instead.

Enough said for now. Seems I stress some people's level of focus too hard. Sorry about that.

oldefoxx wrote: With PureBasic it is ProgramParameters() and CountProgramParameters() Workable once you have them, but a dickens to find.

The first thing I would suggest to any new PB user is to read the help manual from start to finish.

It's not big and you'll have a general idea of everything available and where to look for something when you need it.
You can skip the 3D part if not interested and maybe come back to that later.

I believe there is no really excuse for not doing so, and the lack of this is evident from the many posts asking "how can I do this ?" when the answer is in the manual. I asked a couple of stupid questions myself when I started before realizing it could be avoided with a small effort.

On the other end the manual is certainly not complete, and sometime you have to find how something work by trying some test code incorporating that particular command/keyword. When every else fails the forum 90% of the time contains the answer.
But it requires time and a lot of reading.

From what I can see, he's using these forums as his own personal blog space. No wonder he got kicked out of the HotBasic forums. You can ask him something, and he'll reply, but then he'll add another 10K of unrelated text about something else entirely. That's spam.

MachineCode wrote:From what I can see, he's using these forums as his own personal blog space. No wonder he got kicked out of the HotBasic forums. You can ask him something, and he'll reply, but then he'll add another 10K of unrelated text about something else entirely. That's spam.

Methinks you exaggerate. First, there are no HotBasic forums, they all expired. There are only two groups now
on Yahoo.com that were set up by and are moderated by the developer of HotBasic. Second. 10k is an overestimate. I might concede 2k, sometimes 3k. Third, what I add is somehow connected to what was there before. If this escapes your attention, I don't know how to help you. But I suspect you did not come seeking help anyway. You would rather annoy.

luis wrote:The first thing I would suggest to any new PB user is to read the help manual from start to finish.

Absolutely!

• Forget QB/VB/PowerBasic/HotBasic/RealBasic Syntax.
• Read the PB help for all commands to get an overview and a feeling for how the commands are categorized into specific libraries.
• Now read and try all examples that come with PureBasic. Change copies of those examples to your liking, play with them.
• Start writing some own small programs.
• Use the help all the time and look at the status bar at the bottom of the IDE for function parameter quick help.
• Use F1 with cursor on a function name to open the help for that function, if something is unclear.

After 2 month you should have many PB function names in your head and write PB programs out of your head most of the time.

Danilo wrote:

• Forget QB/VB/PowerBasic/HotBasic/RealBasic Syntax.
• Read the PB help for all commands to get an overview and a feeling for how the commands are categorized into specific libraries.
• Now read and try all examples that come with PureBasic. Change copies of those examples to your liking, play with them.
• Start writing some own small programs.
• Use the help all the time and look at the status bar at the bottom of the IDE for function parameter quick help.
• Use F1 with cursor on a function name to open the help for that function, if something is unclear.

After 2 month you should have many PB function names in your head and write PB programs out of your head most of the time.

AMEN!

The first thing I would suggest to any new PB user is to read the help manual from start to finish.

I believe there is no really excuse for not doing so, and the lack of this is evident from the many posts asking "how can I do this ?" when the answer is in the manual.

On the other end the manual is certainly not complete, and sometime you have to find how something work by trying some test code incorporating that particular command/keyword. When every else fails the forum 90% of the time contains the answer.
But it requires time and a lot of reading.

Right on ! I've followed this procedure for EVERY new development language I have ever learned !