PureBasic Forums - English

The whole time I have been using PB, I have never been very clear on the different subsystems available in the compiler. I usually program on Windows, using the default subsystem (directx9 now?).

The 4.51 help file reads: I'm mainly interested in the Windows subsystems, including directx7 which isn't listed in the help (?). If anyone has any more details or experiences to share, the advantages/disadvantages of each, when or when NOT to use them, performance tradeoffs, bugs, etc. please mention them.

My motivation for asking is that I'm working on a decent-sized game and everything is drawn by the 2D drawing library in real-time. I'm developing on XP Pro and I get smooth 60 FPS gameplay. However the recent "2D drawing is slow as hell" thread has got me paranoid about future issues when porting to newer Windows, plus hopefully Mac, and possibly Linux. This might happen around New Years time, so 4.60 should be finished.

I've been experimenting with the available subsystems and getting bizarre results... here are some examples (all PB 4.60 RC 1):

XP Pro, default subsystem: game runs/draws smoothly, ~60 fps
XP Pro, directx7: game draws ~60 fps, but the collision system somehow becomes buggy and unreliable (collision code is independent of drawing code!) which reminds me of an old thread about the graphics subsystem affecting the floating-point operations somehow... I will try to find this.
XP Pro, nt4: game doesn't start, because OpenScreen() fails for me in 4.51+, or at least returns 0...
XP Pro, opengl: first I have to remove DisplayTranslucentSprite(), then I have to remove writing to the DrawingBuffer() because I get IMA crashes... then the game runs but the screen is all white. This also happens with some help examples, like the Direct Screen Drawing one.
Windows 7, default subsystem: game crashes with IMA, I will get more details when I have access to it again

I need to investigate all these problems... any insight? For what it's worth, I have Intel integrated laptop graphics, which seem to have their own issues, which I once brought up here: http://www.purebasic.fr/english/viewtop ... 13&t=45577 I hope my 5-year-old cheap graphics card / drivers are to blame for most of these problems here. I have seen commercial games that specifically say they will not run on Intel integrated graphics...

Anyway, I am busy with finishing school and job hunting right now, so this game won't even be near finished until 2012, so these issues aren't terribly urgent.

In my experience DirectX7 has pretty good 2D performance. But this isn't available on Windows 7.

I did a shotty example of zooming sprites without using Sprite3D(). In DirectX7 it performed better then DirectX9, on my pc anyway.
http://www.purebasic.fr/english/viewtop ... 12&t=47030

I have always been an OpenGL fan but drawing text will slow things down. You just have to convert your text to sprites. I really like the fact that it's cross platform too.

I don't have much use for DirectX3. But there may be advantages that I don't know about. Besides Windows NT.

J. Baker wrote:In my experience DirectX7 has pretty good 2D performance. But this isn't available on Windows 7.

Does it not work on your Win7 system, or did you hear that somewhere?

DirectX7 subsystem works fine here, Win7 64bit.
Try Waponez II example with subsystem DirectX7 on Windows 7.
Tested with 32bit and 64bit PureBasic.

Danilo wrote:

J. Baker wrote:In my experience DirectX7 has pretty good 2D performance. But this isn't available on Windows 7.

Does it not work on your Win7 system, or did you hear that somewhere?

DirectX7 subsystem works fine here, Win7 64bit.
Try Waponez II example with subsystem DirectX7 on Windows 7.
Tested with 32bit and 64bit PureBasic.

I read that. I guess I shouldn't believe everything I read. Or maybe I just misunderstood what I read. I apologize for the bad information.

J. Baker wrote:I read that. I guess I shouldn't believe everything I read. Or maybe I just misunderstood what I read. I apologize for the bad information.

You have nothing to apologize for. You should not be using DX7 under Vista or 7. DirectX 7 is not supported on Vista or Windows 7, it is emulated at runtime. The emulation is far from perfect. DD7 does fairly good, but D3D7 (what Sprite3D would use) is very problematic. It is much better to use modern APIs than trying to use dead and deprecated APIs (that are over 10 years old) on modern hardware and operating systems.

So is Directx7 only useful for targeting older (XP or previous) Windows? (And even more so for nt4.)

I'm not drawing any text in my current program, so maybe OpenGL will give as good performance as Directx9. I just have to solve the blank screen issue. I don't think it's a PureBasic issue, just a combination of my graphics card / drivers / OpenGL. I think this has happened in the past while playing other non-PB games, but I don't remember any solutions. If I find anything I will post it here.

Just don't use DirectX 7 anymore. It doesn't make sense to support OS before XP now, and as far as DirectX is concerned, version 9 really is the lowest you should use.

kenmo wrote:So is Directx7 only useful for targeting older (XP or previous) Windows? (And even more so for nt4.)

DX7 isn't supported on NT4 (NT4 will only support up to DX3). Although DX7 will work on XP or older, it is not a good idea to use it for XP. The API is deprecated for a reason. Most XP systems (unless the graphics card is 10 years old) would have DX9 compatible graphics cards. Video card manufacturers are increasingly not providing DX7 compliant drivers, there are obscure issues popping up. DirectX 9 fully supports XP, and most XP systems will have DX9 compatible graphics cards due to how old DirectX 9 is. Nowadays, DX7 is only beneficial for 98-ME/2000.

That said, Vista and 7 do not ship with complete DirectX 9 support. DirectX 9 must be downloaded and installed separately and MS has not released an update for DX9 in over a year.

For Windows, I will only use OpenGL. It works on all versions of Windows (95-7) and is well supported even on crappy Intel video chips and you do not have to deal with all of the DX problems.

kenmo wrote:I'm not drawing any text in my current program, so maybe OpenGL will give as good performance as Directx9.

The drawing text issue can affect OpenGL and DirectX and is often a driver issue. That said, you should always use bitmapped fonts for DX/OGL games.

This is all useful information, thank you guys.

It looks like I will stick to DX9 and/or OpenGL, maybe release two executables.

Although OpenGL is not working for me... I just updated my graphics drivers (restarted) and tested again before posting.
1. Does DisplayTranslucentSprite() not exist with OpenGL enabled?
2. Direct-access drawing (DrawingBuffer() etc) should work in OpenGL right? It crashes here, but I haven't fully investigated.
3. The entire screen shows up blank white, when Start/StopDrawing is used. I have even narrowed it down to this simple code:
Any ideas to resolve Start/StopDrawing blanking my screen, or just update all drivers / get a new computer

I'm seeing green without editing your code on Mac. What graphics card are you using?

On Windows using OpenGL, try this... EDIT: Sorry had to fix the code. Works fine now.

Still shows up white.

I believe this is my gfx card: http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/i ... 021517.htm

It says it should support OpenGL, although it says drivers from Windows Update typically don't.... but their update utility says my driver is up to date.

EDIT: Also, it's not just 2D Drawing that shows up white... if I try some of PB's sprite examples, that don't call Start/StopDrawing, then the background (ClearScreen color) shows up fine but the sprites all show up blank white... I tried this a couple hours ago.

kenmo wrote:Still shows up white.

I believe this is my gfx card: http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/i ... 021517.htm

It says it should support OpenGL, although it says drivers from Windows Update typically don't.... but their update utility says my driver is up to date.

EDIT: Also, it's not just 2D Drawing that shows up white... if I try some of PB's sprite examples, that don't call Start/StopDrawing, then the background (ClearScreen color) shows up fine but the sprites all show up blank white... I tried this a couple hours ago.

I understand now. Intel chips are usually not supported by most games or 3D editors as they are not up to par with Nvidia or ATI. I take it you are on a laptop, being that it's a mobile chip?

kenmo wrote:1. Does DisplayTranslucentSprite() not exist with OpenGL enabled?

When using a 3D subsystem, it is best to use Sprite3D functions wherever possible.

kenmo wrote:2. Direct-access drawing (DrawingBuffer() etc) should work in OpenGL right? It crashes here, but I haven't fully investigated.

Does it work when using DX9? I am not sure if modern graphics cards/chips support this feature.

kenmo wrote:but their update utility says my driver is up to date.

No matter what graphics card you have, never use the drivers provided by Microsoft. It is best to download the graphics card drivers directly from the vendor who actually makes the hardware, which in your case is Intel. You should manually download the proper drivers for your graphics card here:

http://downloadcenter.intel.com/default.aspx

Because you are not using the proper drivers you are forcing OpenGL to use the shitty software rendering which ships with Windows.