PureBasic Forums - English

I saw this video and I said, OHHHH CRRAP ! ! !

Are you really happy about what Obama has done about health care?!
You haven't seen anything yet. It's all just a means to an end -- the of the medical profession entirely.
I say again... OHHHH CRRAP ! ! !

See for yourself >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HnkxIh62dQ

Definitely good material for those of you that like to pass along the gossip email
BTW: this Dr Janda guy in the youtube vid is real
http://biggovernment.com/author/djanda/
... so this is not a scam.

US health care is the most inefficcient and expensive in the world. Run by greedy companies
that hate Obama and his health care intensely.

None of these companies care about peoples health, they care about peoples credit cards.

In my opinion the US is getting more and more weird, and are bancrupt as well.

So much for a pure capitalist system. The whole place has gone Sarah Palin.

utopiomania wrote:US health care is the most inefficcient and expensive in the world. Run by greedy companies
that hate Obama and his health care intensely.

None of these companies care about peoples health, they care about peoples credit cards.

In my opinion the US is getting more and more weird, and are bancrupt as well.

So much for a pure capitalist system. The whole place has gone Sarah Palin.

utopiomania my friend - You are prone to wild conclusions time to time in these off-topics.

- Sarah Palin is no longer an elected official and is merely a pretty talking head. I like to watch and hear her talk, much as I would any Victoria's Secret model.

- USA is not a pure capitalist system. - This is soooooo far from the truth.

We have a thoroughly mis-managed, near fascist, government forced monopolistic, ponzi economy.

I say fascist, because our oversight organizations (SEC-stocks, FDA-food & drugs, DEP-environment, Education, NIH-health institute) for example are bought and paid for by the very corporations they are supposed to review!
- The SEC ignored repeated claims of fraud in the Madoff ponzi scheme.
- DEP forced oil companies further and further off-shore for drilling, which in actuality is more difficult and requires stricter regulations. But, they were ignored and we have BP's millions of gallons of oil tainting food supply in the Gulf for decades.

I say mis-managed because the Federal Reserve attempts to solve all problems by printing more dollars and pushing the debt out to future generations instead of forcing reality upon our citizens and our creditors.

I say ponzi because our tax code attempts to re-distribute money from those that earn money and give it to those that do not. These are in the form of hundreds of entitlement programs, the largest of which are Social Security and Education and Health Care. Ponzi systems always fail, when the earners finally give up and move or decide to join in the "get something for nothing" plans.

Too many of our representatives in government are constantly "running for re-election" and therefore succumb to intense lobbying from corporations. Not the voting public. I cannot and will not send money to compete with a corporation's lobby funds. I can only vote.

What does all this mean?
It means, our system is flawed in trying to control human behavior with silly pretend rules and regulations.
Better, is to have a purely capitalistic society as you suggest.
Then all know and expect that each and every person or corporation or elected official is acting in their own greedy personal interests. This is human nature.

These are some theorems in a free society of humans.
- A farmer makes no money if his food makes you sick or die.
- A doctor/pharmacist/drug company makes less money when people are not sick.
- A bank makes no money if no one takes on debt.
- A military contractor makes far less money if there is peace.
- A politician has little power if there are no tax dollars to redistribute.
- A fisherman/hunter/logger/miner makes no future money if he depletes his hunting ground.
...and so on...

-Rant Off

utopiomania wrote:US health care is the most inefficcient and expensive in the world. Run by greedy companies
that hate Obama and his health care intensely.

None of these companies care about peoples health, they care about peoples credit cards.

In my opinion the US is getting more and more weird, and are bancrupt as well.

So much for a pure capitalist system. The whole place has gone Sarah Palin.

Ignoring the insults, there are so many fallacies and mis-informed assertions here I'm not even sure where to start.
Also, I think if you are not a US citizen you should not speak of what you do not know.
I've been in the US health care system my entire life and in my experience it's been government involvement that has caused our problems, much in the same way their meddling provided the impetus for the current real-estate crisis and subsequent recession. It's their constant incremental socialism that has caused most of our problems, but people are finally waking up.
The foreign media is very biased against the US system, I suspect this is to support their own political biases in their home countries.
I think we'll soon find many of these socialized health care systems are slowly failing or will eventually collapse under their own weight and be required to greatly curtail services when the taxed oil revenues eventually run dry ...

USCode wrote:Also, I think if you are not a US citizen you should not speak of what you do not know.

Never limit your pool of critics, lest you be surrounded only by "yes" men.
We live in a global society that supports inspection from near and afar.
I have never been to Iran or Libya or North Korea, yet it is fair to conclude there is something wrong there.

utopiomania wrote:US health care is the most inefficcient and expensive in the world.

When it comes to expense and inefficiency the NHS in the UK takes some beating. It is the largest state monopoly outside of communist China, it is the worlds third largest employer with 1.3 million employees (only the Red Army and the Indian Railways have more), it has the highest paid doctors on the planet outside of private practice in America and despite it receiving funding at a similar level of GDP to the German and French services we have outcomes more comparable to countries like Bulgaria rather than other 1st world countries.

That's what you get when your services are set up by lefty politicians. So despite being forced to pay exorbitant taxes to fund this 'service' I also pay for private health insurance for my family because I don't trust the NHS to look after them properly.

Research in the UK has also shown state employees earn 30% more and work 9 years less than their counter-parts in the productive economy, they then swan off into retirement on a fancy pension scheme further adding to the tax burden of the private sector.

If state pension liabilities are taken into account the true national debt of the UK is getting on for £5 TRILLION and it's still growing. The only thing that can really save the UK from complete financial meltdown is binge drinking and the obesity crisis, if enough public sector sops and porkers cark it young and thus not live to claim their pension.

Please don't insult me with this US capitalist bullshit. Just do a search on Norway and health care
and living standards, or hapiness.

Or swap Norway for any scandinavian or north european countries.

These systems works, yours don't. You are bancrupt, and your people needs three jobs to maintain a reasonable standard of living, or they end up in the gutter.

But what can you expect? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE

I've been in the US health care system...

The US doesn't have a health care system.

A system implies that the parts form a "coherent entity", "unified whole", "integrated whole", or similar (look it up in a dictionary if you don't believe me). Companies that compete against each other do not together form a coherent entity or unified whole, rather the opposite.

@utopiomania -
Why are you insulted by reason and logic?
Norway's 5 million people is but a hamlet in America's 330+ million?
As you know or prefer to ignore, systems and experiments quickly fail under the stress of extremes.
America, despite our faults is still a shining light of hope and freedom to countless millions of illegals.
Just how many non-paying illegals fill your country's emergency rooms and clinics?

Of course it is hard to live in New York City or Washington DC or San Francisco.
If someone chooses the most popular places, then they must work harder to support their choice.
Reasonable standards of living are relative and can be had for much less effort throughout our country.
It is big you know.

I laugh hard and cry a little every time I see those roving reporter videos asking questions of our citizens on seemingly simple topics. Fear not utopiomania, my children can answer those questions and many more.

Let me ask you a simple question?
If you work harder or better than your peers, do you mind if your boss gives you all the same pay raise?

Trond wrote:The US doesn't have a health care system.

A system implies that the parts form a "coherent entity", "unified whole", "integrated whole", or similar (look it up in a dictionary if you don't believe me). Companies that compete against each other do not together form a coherent entity or unified whole, rather the opposite.

Yes Trond!
And I am glad of it. Our system, by definition, is not closed or managed.
This is being attempted, however, by recent laws to mandate health care for those that cannot afford it, but that is shouldered on the backs of hard working citizens.

This is all just a political flim flam, to offer the masses some nice piece of pie to get re-elected or write a footnote in history.

This same piece of pie or commodity could have been:
- Let every citizen have a home. This is a basic need to survive the cold.
- Let every citizen have a safe car with 20 airbags and roll cages. This is a basic need to survive collisions.
- Let every citizen have a college degree. This surely is a requirement to be a benefit to society.

What's missing here?
Limits and reality and the self respect from having earned something instead of taking a hand out.

utopiomania wrote:Please don't insult me with this US capitalist bullshit. Just do a search on Norway and health care
and living standards, or hapiness.

Or swap Norway for any scandinavian or north european countries.

These systems works, yours don't.

Norway is a small nation that has gas and oil (and they've had the good sense to stay out of the EU, a dreadful Socialist quagmire). You can make pretty well any system succeed in those circumstances.

My country’s better than yours is. My county has this and my country has that. And we don’t do this and we don’t do that. If you have a government, you’ve got problems, one form or another. I was only thinking my original post might fuel some of that much beloved email spam people like to circulate. I didn’t see this “my country” thing coming at all. If that’s where this is going then have I got a story to tell…

Once upon a time there was this small country called England, and like any (and every!!!) country they had their little society composed of individuals ranging from the unwavering conformists to the blatant misfits. Like any society, moral standards were set in place to help maintain an orderly lifestyle for its entire people. The most wonton of misfits that were unable to honor the laws and control their behavior were sent down under to a land far away known as Australia -- the prison island for the worst of the worst. All the remaining wonton misfits that were at least marginally able to control their behavior (enough to avoid being condemned to the prison island) decided they had had enough of social rule and fled their small country to another land far away and to the west. Free from rule. Free from the perceived tyranny of their former government. Free to lie, cheat and steal. Free to kill anyone that got in his or her way. Free to propagate the vast new territory like a cancer, to grow into a force of tyranny the like this world had never seen before, and establish their own social rule based on the same standards set forth upon their arrival to that once virgin land -- lie, cheat and steal. Declare war and kill anyone that gets in his or her way. Land of the free and the brave (brazen, more at I think).

Yes sirry. That’s the American way. Oh, did I sayyyyy thhaaaat? What was I thinking? What!?... Was I thinking?!!!! Yes I was. I was thinking about my childhood and how I was taught by the "so-called American" society that "we do not tattle tail!” One of the very first lessons you will learn if you are raised in America. Why do you suppose that is? No!!! I am not talking about "the things kids say". I am talking about the things teachers say now in the public school system and for as long as I can remember. "Nobody likes a tattle tail". For those of you who do not know, a "tattle tail" is someone that tries to expose inappropriate behavior or deeds by someone lacking morals or self-restraint. Now, why would a nation want to ingrain such standards into the minds of their children? Well, like it or not, it goes back to the original virtues set forth by those wonton misfits that started the whole mess. If you tattle tail, you make waves. If enough people make enough waves then they might actually incite enough people to do something about the lying, the cheating, the stealing -- "and we don't want you to spoil it for the rest of us ... We're bankers, we’re professors, we’re doctors, we're lawyers, we're politicians. We can't have you making waves!!! That’s not how this country operates. We have ‘our image’ to uphold!!” Next we could look at "so called American" idols. Name the biggest thugs and criminals of all times. Those are the people in so-called American history that are admired most by the majority. I could go on, but I think you get the picture. If you were born there then you're not likely going to approve my saying so, but those are the facts. Lie, cheat and steal, but don't tell. That "is" the American way

"So-called American" society?? What’s that all about??!! Yeh, exactly. That's what I would like to know. Those people that call themselves Americans. Who are they anyway? I mean, really! Who are they??! Is that a country? Does that country even have a name? They call themselves "Americans" but so do Canadians, and Mexicans, and Brazilians, and Panamanians. You knowwwww!? All those countries over there that "ACTUALLY HAVE A NAME!!!?". These people that plundered the land, over a 1000 miles from coast to coast, too stupid to actually give their ill-gotten land a name. "Oh no!!.... Wait right there. They did give it a name. It is "THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA". How original... right? So is Mexico -- "The United States" of America. Most "so-called Americans" couldn't tell you that. Too full of themselves and blind arrogance to know they don't own and constitute everything on the planet. Of course, “Mexico” does not call themselves "The United States" of America even though it is a literal factual truth. They don't need to. The country has a name -- its called "MEXICO"!!

I imagine most if not all those reading this little rant have already looked up there at my location wondering where the hell this guy is from. So-called Americans wanting to strangle me and others wanting to agree. That is, if I didn’t just help shatter their dream of visiting what they thought up until now to be the Promised Land, Land of the Free and all that other propaganda we spread around the globe. Yes, I am from the country with no name and I can’t say there is anything more embarrassing than saying that I am from America. Anyone and I mean A-N-Y-O-N-E that is not a so-called American “knows” that is just plain ignorant. Not to mention arrogant. And for those of you so-called Americans thinking if I don’t like it so much, bla bla bla… I already got the hell out and I gotta say, life is so much better here in this foreign land. Hahhhhhhh Talk about freedom. Free to walk the streets any time of day or night without worrying if I’m going to get mugged or murdered. Free from giant bubble of ignorance that envelopes those so-called Americans bombarded with lies about how great they are and how fortunate they are. Travel outside the bubble. You’ll see. Its not so great and its quite unfortunate the government and the media has that much power to deceive you into thinking it is. Still mad at me?? Yeah yeah yeah. I know. Nobody likes a tattle tale. Know what? I’m free from that too

Ooops. Guess I got a little off track. We were taking about Obama and his health care thingy. What do you do when all the doctors abandon their profession? I guess they will go underground and form their own little clan, take care of their own and wait for the rest of so-called America to plague its way out of existence. I guess that’s one way to get rid of Obama, unless…. You don’t happen to know if he has a medical degree?

There seem to be quite a few (historical) facts, that are almost forgotten,
or less concious at this time.

Inspired by Randy Walkers "rant", I feel, I should mention some of those,
I came across. Some of them might be only rumors,
but in doubt probably worth investigating.

Talking about the "medical profession" as we (probably) know it today:
This is something, that came to replace more traditional and more diverse
methods and infrastructures in the field of health and healing,
when such was suppressed and destroyed, (at least partially) with its help.

This was done by force rather then by leaving the choice with the (potential) "patients".
So, as I see it, those battles were won by bringing up external forces rather
then competing with other infrastructures... for the best results ...
(which could also have allowed for coexistence)

Usually such things (applying force where choice should be) where (and are)
justified very cleverly (not necessarily truthfully in every aspect),
so as not to incite to much resistance.

In former times the talk was much about "healing",
in the sense of changing a non optimum situation to a better one.
(Hopefully handling this once and for all future)
In the "medical profession" the talk is mostly about "treatment",
in the sense of doing something to the patient that will (temporarily)
alleviate his trouble until he is due to come back for more treatment.
Treatment also being synonym for a rather reliable source of income.

I feel this same kind of thing happened in many different countries.
If you could accept that to be true, that should be something to think about.


About America:
I must omit any history prior to the recent waves of conquest (mostly from Europe),
because my history teachers ... did (maybe could) not tell me anything about it.
But, as I understood it, it started as colonies of some countries, including England.
...
The English government then passed some laws, that resulted in depression and poverty
in its colonies in America causing the desire of independence...

Other things, I've heard about (US)America include:

• Every president, they ever had, was somehow related in blood to the English crown.
• The federal reserve (mentioned above) is a private institution
  and no more "federal" than Federal Express.

As I see it, lies and corruption as well as "national debts"
("governments" choosing to borrow money, created by private institutions
for interest, so there can not be enough money in existence,
to ever be able to pay it back, but the debt will be ever growing,
instead of creating their own interest free money)
are all over the globe, not limited to America.

As money is [almost] our only method of exchanging values,
anything that would disturb the balance between "goods"
and circulating money, would create trouble for us.

I'll end my part of ranting now, to limit the length of this post to retain some readability
and not to get to far of topic.
(Closing the loop back to this topic would probably be unbearably long for anyone.)

the.weavster wrote:EU, a dreadful Socialist quagmire

The EU is extremely pro-capitalistic. In fact it was started as a trade union, and the free flow of goods and services is still the main priority that takes precedence over basically anything. Get your facts straight.

Trond wrote:The EU is extremely pro-capitalistic. In fact it was started as a trade union, and the free flow of goods and services is still the main priority that takes precedence over basically anything.

But I heard rumors, that sound more like "free flow of regulations, restrictions, ...
created by commissions not subject to any kind of public elections ...".

Fortunately I don't feel any effects of such here yet.

I would not even know what "Socialist quagmire" would really mean.