PureBasic Forums - English

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by piamoo.

Hello.....I have a few questions about PureBasic and Visual Basic. If you can answer me, please answer me. Thanks!!! I want to learn a programming language to write application softwares and games with Windows GUI.

1. I never learn Visual Basic. Which one is easier? PureBasic or Visual Basic?

2. How about the speed? PureBasic is faster or Visual Basic is faster?

3. I think that Visual Basic can be used to write full screen games and games with Windows GUI. How about PureBasic? Can PureBasic be used to write both types of games? ( Games means 2D games but not 3D games )

4. I know that if a person uses C++ to write game, he needs to learn DirectX. Right? If I want to write game with Visual Basic, do I need to learn DirectX? How about if I want to write game with PureBasic, do I need to learn DirectX?
Actually, I don't want to learn DirectX.

5. What are the other main differences between PureBasic and Visual Basic?

6. Ok...finally, which language will you suggest to me? And why? I know that it is a PureBasic message board. Please don't tell me that PureBasic is very good but Visual Basic is very bad. I want to hear neutral opinions. Thank you very much!!!!!!

I have checked the prices of Visual Basic .NET and the price is over USD100 and it is much higher than PureBasic. OK....I am looking forward to your valuable replies. All opinions are welcome.

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by PB.

> 1. I never learn Visual Basic. Which one is easier? PureBasic or Visual Basic?

For a complete beginner such as yourself, PureBasic will be easier, simply due
to the fact that you don't need to worry about setup apps and DLL Hell (see
further down).

> 2. How about the speed? PureBasic is faster or Visual Basic is faster?

Hard to say... I'll leave this for someone else to answer.

> 3. I think that Visual Basic can be used to write full screen games and games
> with Windows GUI. How about PureBasic? Can PureBasic be used to write both
> types of games? ( Games means 2D games but not 3D games )

Yes, both can do Windows GUI apps and 2D games with ease. PureBasic has better
sound support for games, too.

> How about if I want to write game with PureBasic, do I need to learn DirectX?

No.

> 5. What are the other main differences between PureBasic and Visual Basic?

* Visual Basic programs are not "standalone" and require a 1.5 MB "runtime" DLL
file to be installed on the user's PC. This means that all Visual Basic
programs cannot simply be copied to a floppy, transported to another PC, and
then run. Some of your potential users will report your app as "buggy" as a
result, and their first impression of your app is that it's rubbish.

* Visual Basic programs have a negative stigma associated with them in the
programming community, and many users and companies will flatly refuse to
install any Visual Basic program on their systems. Do a web search for "DLL
Hell" to find out why.

* Visual Basic programs cannot be run on the Amiga or Linux; however PureBasic
programs, with very little tweaking of their source code, can. Thus, your
PureBasic programs can cater for three different Operating Systems; and in the
case of Shareware apps, means that you'll have three times the potential client
base!

* Visual Basic programs are very easily "cracked" with Visual Basic debugging
programs such as SmartCheck, which means anyone can learn how to hack into your
Visual Basic programs to see code routines that you want kept hidden.

> 6. Ok...finally, which language will you suggest to me?

PureBasic, for sure, for the reasons above. Also, did you know that Visual Basic
will no longer even be supported by Microsoft from Jan 2008? See here:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vbasic/support/vb6.asp


PB - Registered PureBasic Coder

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Rings.

I think i can reply your questions as well,coz i use both languages, VB and Pure for coding and knew both with positives and negatives.
Some Questions are easy to answer:


1)No one is easier as the other one.You have to take some hours to become familar with both.For VB there is a lot of Doucmentaion available.

2)Defintly PureBasic.In PureBasic an increment is only one line of ASM,in VB there is a lot of(more than 10 statements as i know)
But Speed is also a kind of How do i programm .

3) Yes you can do it in Pure

4) No you don't have to learn DirectX.But you can use it if you like it.....
In VB there are NO GamingCommands for sprites or something else.

5) Very difficult to explain.One Mayor different is the syntax.VB is QuickBasic-Compatible, Pure not.Pure has his ground from the amiga.But both has a Basic-Syntax
In VB you have to use Objects and ActiveX.You can compile Exe and ActiveX.In Pure you can Compile Exe,native-DLL and ConsoleExe.Pure is available on 3 plattforms, VB only on one.
VB has a inline Dataacess via DAO, Pure has 'only' SQL over ODBC .
In VB you design you Gui grahicly, in Pure you have to code.But there are 2 Tools which helps you for the first time.(If you ever understand the creating of a gui you will never use grahpical design environment anymore)
Pure can use InlineASM, VB not.
The 3Partymarket(Toolvendors) for tools and libs is very big on VB, but also expensive.On Pure if they are availble there are at low or no cost available.
Microsoft has stopped developing VB.They has there eyes on Dot-Net, but that is another topic to discuss(I'm playing with .Net now)
PureBasic is still in development and becomes better and better every release.Believe it, my first copy was a 2.3x one .

6) Try out both.You can play with the Sharewareversions as well, study the examples.I use both, coz both has his benefits.


Its a long way to the top if you wanna .....CodeGuru

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by naw.

Hi

- I'm a newbie to PB too!

I tried VB a couple of times over 3 or 4 weeks and I found the whole *visual* environment utterly confusing and bewildering.

PB is very conventional in the sense that it is a simple top-down language (sorry, I cant think of a better term than that).

Despite the wealth of information and documentation available for VB and the often rather patchy docs for PB, I wrote a simple "To Do" list program in PB within about 2 hours of receiving my official copy.

PB generates *self-contained* code, which is nice and simple ie no *DLL hell* unlike VB.

PB cost me about £40 and VB costs errrr! ummm! a lot more - I'd rahter risk £40 than ?£400?

Finally (I think this is the biggest bonus for PB) there is a vibrant and enthusiastic community on the PB forums, people really do go *all out* to help.

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by piamoo.

PB, Rings, naw,

Hello.....very very detailed answers.........

Thank you very much!!!!!

PureBasic is a better choice. I will buy it later.

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by bluez.

piamoo, i'm currently looking into the same issue, being an old gfa user looking for a new basic to work in... (see also the buy or not buy thread)... i'm now up to making a choice: either switch from gfabasic to purebasic or leave basic for c(++)... haven't made up my mind yet...


... this copy of me has been unregistered for 36 years (no spam please)

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Hitman.

PB is a High-Level language, but can produce native machinecode.
VB can't do it.

And VB is too expensive and stupid.
However, if you want to make program, I'll suggest "LccW32"
or "DevC++"

They're free and in good quality.

ATTENTION LEARNING BASIC MAY CAUSE SEVERE BAD-PROGRAMMING-HABIT.
I'VE WARNED YOU IT'S YOUR FREEDOM TO CHOOSE.

Well, everyone needs to do something for living.

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Hitman.

One more.

My friend, who's a full-time programmer, he said, finally you'll "back to Visual C++" if you're serious.

There're too many choice, however ANSI C/C++ is the current industrial standard only.

Well, everyone needs to do something for living.

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Rings.

PB is a High-Level language, but can produce native machinecode.
VB can't do it.

And VB is too expensive and stupid.
However, if you want to make program, I'll suggest "LccW32"
or "DevC++"

They're free and in good quality.

ATTENTION LEARNING BASIC MAY CAUSE SEVERE BAD-PROGRAMMING-HABIT.
I'VE WARNED YOU IT'S YOUR FREEDOM TO CHOOSE.

My friend, who's a full-time programmer, he said, finally you'll "back to Visual C++" if you're serious.

There're too many choice, however ANSI C/C++ is the current industrial standard only.

Totaly Wrong stupid sh*t.
VB(Version 5 or 6) makes native Machinecode.They also need some runtimelibs thats right.So Pure links the 'Runtimelibs' into the Exe, VB does not.
'VB is too expensive and stupid' in same cases Yes, but it is that Rapid-Development-Tool which makes Windows(From V3.1) grow up.
If You are a 'full-time programmer', 1000$ are not that Point.You're Time
to check your C++Syntax is expensive too.
And 'serious' has nothing to do with a Language you code with.It's up to you to code clean,fast and bug free code.I'm in the buisness(full-time programmer)
since over 12 years.There is no need for C++(and C#´too ), You can all do that in other languages.


Its a long way to the top if you wanna .....CodeGuru

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Hitman.

You're right, some aspects you're right.
but refer to M$DN, VB do not produce native machine code by default.
It uses interpreter (MSVBVM60.DLL), however it can do something really.
With a 1.5meg VB Runtime or a good installer, user won't be able
to know it's made with VB.

I dunno what kind of job you're programming,
if you're Application programmer, yes VB is RAD, so does VC++ /Delphi /BCB /PowerBasic.
But not in games, I see piamoo want to make games much,
I'll sugget him use BlitzBasic.

And the job of Debug|Arrange the Code, depends on programmer.
Not the language, as long as you keep good habit, debug isn't hard.

Well, everyone needs to do something for living.

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Danilo.

OMG...

> However, if you want to make program,
> I'll suggest "LccW32" or "DevC++"

> ATTENTION LEARNING BASIC MAY CAUSE SEVERE
> BAD-PROGRAMMING-HABIT.
> I'VE WARNED YOU IT'S YOUR FREEDOM TO CHOOSE.

> My friend, who's a full-time programmer, he said,
> finally you'll "back to Visual C++" if you're serious.


Hitman - thats the hit !!

All this lines are sayings that you heared or read
somewhere.
You dont know what you are talking about.

This is old bull**** that people told each other
15 years ago.
You still believe it ?? L O L

> if you're Application programmer, yes VB is RAD,
> so does VC++ /Delphi /BCB /PowerBasic.
> But not in games, I see piamoo want to make games much,
> I'll sugget him use BlitzBasic.

Ever seen a big game in the store made with BB ??

You are right: C/CPP and such are not good enough
for making games.
Only BB can do that (ok, and JAVA too).

ROFLMAO - forget it.


-= THE END =-

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Hitman.

Your freedom to believe or not.
If you show me your works, I'll be glad to accept your statement.


Edited by - Hitman on 05 May 2002 00:11:10

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by PB.

> VB do not produce native machine code by default.

Wrong. Visual Basic 5 and 6 produce native machine code by default.
It's in the Visual Basic documentation, and on their web site. It
is not interpreted code (also known as P-Code).

> refer to M$DN

Please give us the M$DN page that says VB5/6 doesn't product native code.
Otherwise, I will not believe your statement. I need solid proof as an URL.

> It uses interpreter (MSVBVM60.DLL)

The MSVBVM60.DLL is not an interpreter. It's simply a runtime DLL with
system routines that Visual Basic programs call. Calling routines is not the
same thing as interpreting them. For more info on VB's native code compilation:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&s ... nterpreted


PB - Registered PureBasic Coder

Edited by - PB on 04 May 2002 23:38:13

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Hitman.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/defau ... itches.asp

Note All projects created with Visual Basic use the services of the run-time DLL (MSVBVM60.DLL). Among the services provided by this DLL are startup and shutdown code for your application, functionality for forms and intrinsic controls, and run-time functions like Format and CLng.

Compiling a project with the Native Code option means that the code you write will be fully compiled to the native instructions of the processor chip, instead of being compiled to p-code. This will greatly speed up loops and mathematical calculations, and may somewhat speed up calls to the services provided by MSVBVM60.DLL. However, it does not eliminate the need for the DLL.

Confusing, ya?


Edited by - Hitman on 05 May 2002 00:16:10

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by PB.

> Compiling a project with the Native Code option means that the code you write
> will be fully compiled to the native instructions of the processor chip

The above statement proves that when compiled to native code, no interpretation
is performed during runtime, because the compiled VB app is using nothing but
native instructions; in other words, NOT being interpreted.

> However, it does not eliminate the need for the DLL.

True, but the DLL is NOT interpreting the natively-compiled app. It's simply
providing it with certain system calls. Calls are not intepretation, which is
my whole point.


PB - Registered PureBasic Coder

Edited by - PB on 05 May 2002 03:09:54