PureBasic Forums - English

I'm working on a small simple program that I think I can sell to people.

Problem is piracy, and here's my current thoughts on how to fight it:


A: Make limited lifespan versions available for free to everyone.

B: Charge a few $'s for unlimited new major versions, no upgrade policy.

C: Give the programs a serialnumber and built in help on how to buy a
legal copy.


'A' will help in marketing the thing.

'B' means the resistance to buy and also to upgrade is low, and will also
ensure exponential growth in income if the program is a success. Will
greatly compensate a low price.

'C' will help people using copies of full versions do the right thing.

(antipiracy code inside the program is meant to be obfuscated and nearly uncrackable)

What do you think about this plan

utopiomania wrote:(antipiracy code inside the program is meant to be obfuscated and nearly uncrackable)

I really admire your programming skills

you may sell the uncrackable code to EA,ubi etc ... instead, if you can do something unbreakable you'll make lots of money.

B: Charge a few $'s for unlimited new major versions, no upgrade policy.

greatly depend on the frequency of the 'major versions'

they might be tired to pay extra bucks each month because you add something you concider as a major version.

imho you may have discount to registered users to have the newer version, maybe 50% off it's a great deal and encourage them to update and don't go on the pirat version (that be sure you'll see one day or the other if your program is a good one).

About 'uncrackable' , I will use a commercial obfuscator. Crackers doesn't seem
to like them very much.

they might be tired to pay extra bucks each month because you add something
you concider as a major version.

They don't need to pay anything if they consider the old version good enough. When
they find that the accumulated improvements is worth paying for, they can buy a new
version again.

I think thats a fair deal since its going to be real cheap.

Anyways, thanks for the comments. This is kind of a 'soft' anti-piracy plan suited
to a particular kind of application, I think.

I only hope its not too soft..

How about the watermark threat? Each legal customer receives his own (invisibly) watermarked version of the program.

If you make the customers aware of this, and also make them aware that redistributing the program without your permission costs <thrice software price> per copy spread, and let them know that you won't sue them, just send them the bill, then that should make them behave!

How about the watermark threat? Each legal customer receives his own (invisibly) watermarked version of the program

I think this could be a very good measure, and mentioned serializing in my first post.

The hard thing is probably how to implement it in a practical way.

This has been talked about before I don't want to seam negative about you pursuit but the reality of it is that no matter what you do you won't prevent piracy, the best way to avoid being pirated is don't be popular, when you become popular all the major warez groups take notice then you have a real problem.

This has indeed been talked about before, but I think trying to prevent misfits
from stealing from you is a sensible thing to discuss.

You do lock your front door when you leave for work don't you?
Even though a thief could easily break in? Or have you installed an alarm system?
I think you get it.

I also think that the assumption that anything will be cracked is false. Sometimes
it will simply cost too much in terms of time and labour involved to crack a five
dollar app.

utopiomania wrote:This has indeed been talked about before, but I think trying to prevent misfits
from stealing from you is a sensible thing to discuss.

You do lock your front door when you leave for work don't you?
Even though a thief could easily break in? Or have you installed an alarm system?
I think you get it.

I also think that the assumption that anything will be cracked is false. Sometimes
it will simply cost too much in terms of time and labour involved to crack a five
dollar app.

Actually no I haven't and I do leave my door open, but then I'm home 99% of the time anyway, however any determined thief is going to get in if they really want to anyway.

By the time I've gone to all the lengths of protecting myself from being stolen from I would have wasted so much money and time on an event that might not ever happen, I apply the same rule to software if someone is determined enough there going to break it and copy it, resulting in? you wasting your time and money on creating hurdles which I might add they "enjoy" jumping though which would have been better spent fixing your bugs, than pampering the pirate with new and inventive ways to lock something down.

utopiomania wrote:B: Charge a few $'s for unlimited new major versions, no upgrade policy.

Perhaps people see this differently, but for me, I think this is a negative. When I first bought PB a few years ago I saw this and it generated a feeling of skepticism.

My feeling is that if a lot of work goes into a substantial major upgrade then the developer is going to need to cover their costs for time. If the only incentive is new business with no return customers then they are cutting their own revenue streams.

Thinking about that, me expectation for upgrades is very low.

I mean, if you have customers who like your product and are happy with your support etc, they probably want to buy more things from you!

Look at PB, a lot of people would be happy to by upgrades, so much so that they donate, there's even some worry by some that they should to make sure PB owners keep working on the product. A lot of customers don't want to worry about that, they are happy to pay for an upgrade.

pdwyer wrote:

utopiomania wrote:Look at PB, a lot of people would be happy to by upgrades, so much so that they donate, there's even some worry by some that they should to make sure PB owners keep working on the product. A lot of customers don't want to worry about that, they are happy to pay for an upgrade.

Programming Languages are in a field of there own, because the user can create software with it, example; lets say Fred said 5.0 you must pay again if you want the extra features whatever they maybe, the language currently can stand on it's own feet it doesn't need Fred's new features because they can be created by the user, resulting in someone creating the same features releasing them for free, where would that leave Fred? everyone would be using the free stuff and all his new features would be for nothing.

Bugs on the other hand I will not pay for a programmers mistake!

I'll put my 2 cents in because I have done a good bit of reversing. I unpack Armadillo protected apps like they are Christmas presents. ASProtect? I rip it apart.

There are tools for EXECryptor, Themidia, PELock, Petite ect. Dot Net scramblers are also crackable.


You just need to accept this fact: SND, Resurrection, ARTEAM, and others WILL unpack your software.

Even apps with Armadillo secure sections that REQUIRE a valid key to run have been unpacked, and the lost code is patched in from older versions. SND and TSRH even have a request board where you can request cracking of versions.

Focus on the PAYING customers, and there you will be successful.

what about using a variant of the model Blizzard uses?

give away the basic program for free, charge at registration and only provide updates to registered users.

doesn't stop piracy, but I think it'd at least deter wannabes. by limiting the registration process to only allow a registered account to download a single instance of an update at a time, you effectively prevent mass piracy using a single distributed account.

The only way to stop it (and even then) is for the content maker to run the software locally all you see is video representation of it like remote PC.

pdwyer and citystate, thanks for the input!

About my idea, if you buy a copy tomorrow for say 5 $, you can use it for as long
as you like, then fork out another fiver for new version when you feel it's worth it.

Just like any other gadget you buy!

As for code protection, can these criminals really unprotect a crackme protected by
apps like EXECryptor or CodeVirtualizer ROUTINELY now