PureBasic Forums - English

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Danilo.

Hello !!

Atm the whole Library is included in
the application, even if you use only
1 command from a PB-Library, right ??

What if you put every command in a
separate .OBJ file and group the
commands that belong to each other
(like all sprite commands) together
in a .LIB file ??

Like:
SPRITE.LIB contains
> InitSprite.OBJ
> LoadSprite.OBJ
> DisplaySprite.OBJ
> FreeSprite.OBJ
> etc...

Maybe thats the solution for the problem... !?

cya,
...Danilo

(registered PureBasic user)

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by fred.

That's a good idea. I will think about it. But it will need a full rewrite of all my libs..

Bye,

Fred - AlphaSND

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Danilo.

Its more like cut&paste...

You can use all the old Libraries,
but split it up into little pieces.
Each command in an own .OBJ file,
and shared Data in an extra .OBJ file
(like SpriteData.OBJ - Data declared
as external).

Only thing you have to write is a
.DESCription file for each .OBJ

Maybe i´ll try it with my Libs...

cya,
...Danilo

(registered PureBasic user)

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Danilo.

TronDoc:
>I think the compile size shouldn't
>be an issue when developing a
>program

Sounds like a VisualBasic user...

>Because once a program is developed,
>the author generally removes all
>that is unnecessary anyway - right?

That may be true for Procedures etc.,
but we talking about a way to handle
Libraries here.
Every PB-command is inside a Library,
and you (the user) cant optimize that.

cya,
...Danilo


(registered PureBasic user)

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by MrVainSCL.

Hi Danilo
Yes, your idea with the obj stuff inside a lib is really great! Would be nice to see smaller programs... Btw i think there could be some small problems while doing this methode... For example, you have two different commands and both commands need one special sub routine (i.e. to init some stuff) - If you code an obj for any command and you use both commands in your source/project, the compiler will include this sub routine two times instead of only one as we really need.. isnt it? Maybe the compiler could check this...!? ) Anyway i think your idea is the best way to realize it, because the libs are crypted and the user cant optimize/hack them - you are right!

Would be nice if Fred will add you as official coder/supporter for PureBasic and rewriting all libs in cooperation for the next release ) You are the right men!

Last but not least... please dont forget to remove some hidden bugs, like the SwitchScreen bug... Keep on ya great work n stay cool...

PIII450, 256MB Ram, 6GB HD, RivaTNT, DirectX8.1, SB AWE64, Win98SE + Updates...

greetz
MrVainSCL! aka Thorsten

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by TronDoc.

Sounds like a VisualBasic user...

nope.. GW-BASIC, ASIC and ASM mostly...
thanks for helping me understand though -jb

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Danilo.

>Btw i think there could be some small problems while doing
>this methode...
>For example, you have two different commands and both commands
>need one special sub routine (i.e. to init some stuff) -
>If you code an obj for any command and you use both commands
>in your source/project, the compiler will include this sub
>routine two times instead of only one as we really need.. isnt it?

No, MrVainSCL.

The linker includes the .OBJ only 1 time.
InitCommand.OBJ (for example) is included
1 time and in the 2 other commands its only
a "CALL InitCommand".

Also DATA is shared if you make an extra
.OBJ for shared DATA (like SpriteData.OBJ)
and declare all as extern.

>Would be nice if Fred will add you as official
>coder/supporter for PureBasic...

I, for myself, think it would be good if
the PureBasic source would be available
to 3 - 5 other assembly coders.
(its not needed to make it available
to everyone)
This guys can read the source, include
new Libs better to existing commands
and help Fred with searching bugs, making
suggestions etc..
They are not allowed to give the source
out and they cant release modifications,
they only send new Code/Tips/Commands to Fred.
Fred is the maintainer and only he can
add something to the PureBasic release.

Thats only my personal opinion and Fred
doesnt want to give the source out.
Its his own choice and i respect it...

cya,
...Danilo
(registered PureBasic user)


Edited by - Danilo on 01 February 2002 11:20:36

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Franco.

I, for myself, think it would be good if the PureBasic source would be available
to 3 - 5 other assembly coders. (its not needed to make it available to everyone)
This guys can read the source, include new Libs better to existing commands and help Fred with searching bugs, making suggestions etc..
They are not allowed to give the source out and they cant release modifications, they only send new Code/Tips/Commands to Fred.
Fred is the maintainer and only he can add something to the PureBasic release.

Thats only my personal opinion and Fred doesnt want to give the source out.
Its his own choice and i respect it...

Nice idea but...
the problem with that is that Fred started PureBasic not as an Open Project.
He want/need/deserve $$$ for his hard work and like TronDoc said in another topic:

For anyone to volunteer their time and experience to assist someone in a commercial endeavour is a wonder in itself.

I'm willing to contribute in any way, (I'm selfish - I want one of the easiest/fastest programming language in my hand to work with, give/receive help, and...)
But I think that Fred can't give his own libs to anybody who is not related to Fantaisie Software in any way. (as employee or contractor)

So the only way that I see for now is to contribute with selfmade libs/snippets/experience.
Just a thought.



Have a nice day...
Franco

Sometimes you have to go a lonely way to accomplish genius things.

Edited by - franco on 01 February 2002 16:44:40

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Danilo.

Hello Franco !!


>Nice idea but...
>the problem with that is that Fred started PureBasic
>not as an Open Project. He want/need/deserve $$$
>for his hard work

Sure.
I didnt say "Open Source". If a few helpers
have access to the source, it doesnt mean
its an OpenSource Project.
And if some people (*limited*, i think max 3 - 5)
_want to help_ him, he cant make money anymore ??

I dont want $20 for my help. I want nothing,
but fun. For me fun is writing assembly and
help other peoples...

>But I think that Fred can't give his own libs to anybody
>who is not related to Fantaisie Software in any way.
>(as employee or contractor)
[...]
>So the only way that I see for now is to contribute with
>selfmade libs/snippets/experience.
>Just a thought.

As i said: I respect it.

I´m only a little bit disappointed atm,
because i cant do everything i want.

It would help alot if the Library coder
could have at least a good (complete)
documentation on PureBasic internals.
(Structures, how are gadgets handled
internally etc.. simply everything).

The thing is simple:
Fred cannot do everything. He cant write
3 Compilers, big big documentation and
answer all eMails if the community grows.

Well, if the community is really big in
2 years, he cant answer 1000 eMails every
Day and write 3 Compilers (or more) +
Documentation _at the same time_.

When Fred is writing a big documentation
for 2 days, he cant work on the compiler
at this time.
If he is answering 1000 eMails, he cant
write on the compiler/libs...

Everybody has only limited time.

Dont you think with some help
it would be a little bit easier ??

Respect,
...Danilo

(registered PureBasic user)

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by fred.

It would help alot if the Library coder
could have at least a good (complete)
documentation on PureBasic internals.
(Structures, how are gadgets handled
internally etc.. simply everything).

Ok, I believe this is a big lack. Just mail me and I will do a COMPLETE doc for all libraries, so you could do what you need. I will need fast feedback (on IRC would be better in fact).

Dont you think with some help
it would be a little bit easier ??

Of course . Any help is welcome.



Fred - AlphaSND

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Franco.

Danilo, I agree totally!

Go for, whatever you intend to do.

For my part, I'm quite desperate (but I can live with it, don't worry...) that I don't have enough time/brain cells for learning asm from the scratch.
Don't know what causes more problems: my small brain or my age

I wrote a asm library (ONE command) as proof of concept with PureBasic (altered the PureB asm code) and it worked
Now I'm hoping that Fred can implement this functionality itself to version 3.0

BTW: Fred, Danilo started this topic because of compile size.
Is there any way to have the InitSprite command without 40KB added. I want to watch for Keyboard inputs but InitKeyboard needs InitSprite. So instead of 4KB for the keyboard lib I have + 40KB because of the sprite lib.
(Don't worry Fred, I can live with it too, you have sure more important things to do, it's only a silly question - well that's me...)

Have a nice day...
Franco

Sometimes you have to go a lonely way to accomplish genius things.

Edited by - franco on 01 February 2002 21:16:54

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by MrVainSCL.

I dont want $20 for my help. I want nothing,
but fun. For me fun is writing assembly and
help other peoples...

Thats nice to hear... Because i think you have the talent for that stuff... Hope to see some nice stuff soon from fred in cooperation with you as part of the developer team

It would help alot if the Library coder could have at least a good (complete) documentation on PureBasic internals. (Structures, how are gadgets handled internally etc.. simply everything).

You are right... i still miss those documentations with all structures like BlitzBasic on amiga... that was really cool to have this feature... Maybe fred can add this like in blitz on amiga...!?

Dont you think with some help it would be a little bit easier ??

yes, absolutly correct! If fred would like to send you all the sources (ofcourse not opensource else guys like mark sibly would be happy;)) - fred could make a contract on paper with all details like "No opensource, not copy/spread the source" - "Dont use parts of the sources to write your own language i.e" and so on... I respect you to work (want work) in cooperation with fred for new PB versions without any money interesting - cool! Keep on your work... nice to have guys like you in this forum/community


PIII450, 256MB Ram, 6GB HD, RivaTNT, DirectX8.1, SB AWE64, Win98SE + Updates...

greetz
MrVainSCL! aka Thorsten

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Danilo.

Danilo wrote:
>> It would help alot if the Library coder could have at least
>> a good (complete) documentation on PureBasic internals.

Fred wrote:
> Ok, I believe this is a big lack. Just mail me and I will do
> a COMPLETE doc for all libraries, so you could do what you need.
> I will need fast feedback (on IRC would be better in fact).

Great. I think i´ll be on IRC tomorrow (Sunday).

Franco wrote:
>I wrote a asm library (ONE command) as proof of concept
>with PureBasic (altered the PureB asm code) and it worked

Really good, Franco.
I think everybody can learn everything
if he _really_ wants it and doesnt give up
too fast...

MrVainSCL wrote:
>yes, absolutly correct! If fred would like to send you
>all the sources (ofcourse not opensource else guys like
>mark sibly would be happy;)) - fred could make a contract
>on paper with all details like "No opensource, not copy/spread
>the source" - "Dont use parts of the sources to write your
>own language i.e" and so on...

Wow !!
At least 1 person understood what i wanted to say...

MrVainSCL wrote:
>...without any money interesting - cool!

Well, all what i want in this life:

1.) Fun:
I´m interested in everything related to Computers,
especially programming, emulation, remakes of good
old games (C64/Amiga), 3D graphics, etc...
(much more, but there is not enough time for everything)

Thats fun for me.

2.) nice body:
Some Bodybuilding (4-5 times/week)
(Damn, i have 100kg now on my 1,84 meters -
and i´m not a fat guy!)

I think body and mind should be consistent with each other.

3.) my own House:
I´ll buy my own house in 4 - 5 years.
I have a good job, so the money isnt
the problem.


Thats all i want.

OK, a cute woman would be nice - but i´m shy
(Once bitten, twice shy.)

cya,
...Danilo
(registered PureBasic user)

Edited by - Danilo on 02 February 2002 06:59:45

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by MrVainSCL.

Hi Danilo
I really like your idea with the .obj stuff - Hope we will see this great feature
somewhere in future of PureBasic... Fred, maybe PB2.30? )))

PIII450, 256MB Ram, 6GB HD, RivaTNT, DirectX8.1, SB AWE64, Win98SE + Updates...

greetz
MrVainSCL! aka Thorsten

Edited by - MrVainSCL on 05 February 2002 17:18:53