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Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by cor.

What is the best way to make a trial version of a 'super program' you just made to protect against hackers.

Now I do it with a 10 times try for the full version, after that is stops working.

What are the best ways to add multiple security checkpoints in your software?

One such strategy involves adding 100 guards to a piece of software, but only having 10 of them actively on the job at a given moment; their membership changes constantly and in secret.

I want that the user can try the full version, before deciding to buy.

Suggestions how you are doing it are welcome?


Using Windows 98 SE
Registered PB version : 3.30 (Windows)
--------------------------
C. de Visser
Author of Super Guitar Chord Finder
http://www.ready4music.com

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by PB.

> What is the best way to make a trial version of a 'super program'
> you just made to protect against hackers.

There are many techniques, but all can be cracked, and will.

It's depressing, yes, and as someone who's had an app cracked I can
tell you it truly demotivates you to continue. You can spend forever
trying to protect your app, but it won't do any good in the long run.
Heck, even Windows XP is cracked -- and that was written by Microsoft,
the world's biggest software company.

I seriously believe that it's better to have an unprotected app but
tempt the user to pay. One of my upcoming unreleased apps is totally
free (nothing crippled, missing, etc) but if users pay then they get
a customised version with their own bitmaps embedded. Sort of like
paying me to skin it for them. I feel this is a good idea because the
custom skin would be of little use or value to anyone else, and anyone
else will (hopefully!) also pay to have their own custom bitmaps inside.

Still, you can always try to protect your app, and the following web
page will give you some very useful tips:

http://inner-smile.com/nocrack.phtml

Don't forget to send in your code snippets to the PureBasic Resources
Site for a chance at winning an Armidillo Software Protection System:

http://www.reelmediaproductions.com/pb/

But again, don't rely on it to be 100% foolproof.

PB - Registered PureBasic Coder

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by tranquil.

I think the best way is not to limit the usage-time of the program, but disable some features in it. Do not complile some functions so you can be sure that these routines are not "recovered" or enabled by crackers again.

To much checkpoints in your source can be a hazle. I'm using a REGISTRED version of Feurio, one of the best CD Audio burners I know but sometimes I get a message "invalid key" and I have to completely reinstall that. Thats not a very good protection.

Mike

Tranquilizer/ Secretly!
http://www.secretly.de
Registred PureBasic User

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by ricardo.

Hi,

My experiencie show me something different. Protection IS a secure way to avoid crackers. Im selling various application, one with more than 195,000 downloads and NEVER found a crack.

My system is simple:

The serial number is generated when the user installs the software and its generated by a combination of the HD number, PC name, etc. Its NOT dependent on the user name.
So, no one can use the Key to distribute it (the most common way to crack is just to distribute the user name & key).
And i think that a "normal" user can't crack it and most of the lame crackers can't to, a very pro-user maybe can do it, but dont waste so many hours to crack an application that he can develope, because if he is a really great programmer he can maybe develope a better application than mine.

In resume:
My experience (im partenir with CNET to sell one of my apps and they are agree with my theory) shows me that the best defense against key distribution, is generating a unique key for every software installed on every PC.

My 2 cents





Best Regards

Ricardo

Dont cry for me Argentina...

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Rings.

Selfmodified code and SEH are nice tricks , but anyway you have to learn a bit of asm or use Armadillo

Its a long way to the top if you wanna .....CodeGuru

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Danilo.

@ricardo:
You just comment the routine out that does
the key stuff. Somewhere in your code you
have to check if the key is OK or something
and everybody can just modify this part.

Not everything gets cracked, because not
everything is interesting to crackers.
They dont care if your program is good or not,
they care how popular it is.

Everything gets cracked - no way around it.
Even Dongles and Hardware CD-ROM protections
have been cracked.

Remember DVD ?? DVD is a very secure standard
to protect the videos from being ripped.
Thats what the big movie industry thought before...

If a new protection comes out (for CD manufacturers etc..)
it just takes some time, because not everything gets cracked
that easy. But it will be done... after a few weeks.

The harder the software protection is, the more
good crackers try and invest time in it.
Its all about competition...

Many big software companies invested much money in software
protection years ago and they know now its not worth it.
Some know now that they better save that money because it
gets cracked sooner or later. Some companies still invest
big dollars in protection... so at the end they have less
money - it gets cracked anyway.

The big companies give their software to a CD manufacturer
that makes the tousand CDs and adds a CD protection to it.
Now, 1 person in the CD maker company can make a copy before
its on the final CD and give it out to some contacts.
All this is done daily and most warez groups like FLT, Razor1911
etc.. have such contacts all around the world.
Games and application sometimes are released in the warez
scene 1 month before its officially released..

You can protect your code from being cracked and distributed
by the little "John Doe", but when the app gets very popular
and interesting to crackers, you dont have a chance.
After it has been cracked (or full version is distibuted
on the main warez servers) also "John Doe" can get its copy
without a hassle.
If _YOU_ think you can win that "war", your a fool...

The cracking scene is about competition and learning more
stuff every day. Its quite interesting.

Your app is not intersting for crackers when...
well, its not interesting when its NOT protected.
There are enough good users around the world that
pay for your software, even if the demo is fully
functional.

Think!

cya,
...Danilo
(registered PureBasic user)

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by PB.

> Im selling various application, one with more than 195,000 downloads
> and NEVER found a crack.

Have you searched for a crack? What's your app's name? If it's that
popular, it should surely have a crack/keygen somewhere. If not, it's
not as popular as you think.

> The serial number is generated when the user installs the software
> and its generated by a combination of the HD number, PC name, etc.

HD serial numbers are easy to change with free software. Maybe that's
why your app isn't cracked -- people are just changing their serial.


PB - Registered PureBasic Coder

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by ricardo.

Have you searched for a crack? What's your app's name? If it's that
popular, it should surely have a crack/keygen somewhere. If not, it's
not as popular as you think.

CNET and my pocket thinks that its popular : )
No cracks available.

Of course i just write here an overview of the method and its a little more complicated, but i found that the common user dont know nothing about cracking a software, and if they cant found a crack, they buy the software.
Maybe a few guys can crack his own version, but its not easy to make a keygen when they dont know how i made the Key.
Every time they install the software get a serial like:

19802-98726-23432212-234543-6567809

and when they register i replay a Key like:

7564321-9879700-5506879

Its not THAT easy to get HOW i get this number and then, its not easy to make any trick.
They cracker must know how i get the serial and then how i generate the key using this serial, believe me, its not easy.


One more point:

I found my software in the most common warez/crack sites but without any real crack version or keygen, because they use to write ALL the popular software names to trap traffic, but a lot of the software on there are not really cracked and ther is no really a keygen, its just an ilussion to think that ALL the popular software have a cracked version.






Best Regards

Ricardo

Dont cry for me Argentina...

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by ricardo.

If _YOU_ think you can win that "war", your a fool...

The cracking scene is about competition and learning more
stuff every day. Its quite interesting.

Your app is not intersting for crackers when...
well, its not interesting when its NOT protected.
There are enough good users around the world that
pay for your software, even if the demo is fully
functional.

Did you have any shareware in market or just talking about something that you read?

I dont know what do you understand by 'popular' but of course we are not talking about software like icq or winamp, but you can have a software with 2,500 daily downloads (its popular under your criteria?) and be safe with some protection.

Maybe others can think different, im just giving my opinion : )




Best Regards

Ricardo

Dont cry for me Argentina...

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Paul.

I agree with Ricardo. If you sell software commercially you need to do whatever you can to protect it and make sure you get paid for it.

When selling shareware, it's usually not a matter of people pirating your software on purpose, it's usually they are to lazy to send the cheque and if they can keep using your software without paying... they will!

When writing custom software for large corporations, software protection will guarantee you get paid. I have written many apps for government institutions and they don't like to pay. One app took 11 months and lots of me harassing them before I finally got paid. After that experience all my software has a built in 60 day kill switch. When they install it, they also get an invoice with 30 days to pay. When I don't see the cheque after 30 days... I just wait. I am nice enough to give an extra 30 days for payment.
Guess what?... after day 60 I get a call right away saying the software has stopped and everyone is in a panic. I tell them this means the software has not been paid for and can only be activated when I see the cheque. The very next day the money is in my hand !

The sad thing is... this is not a one time thing. Every single application is paid in full the day after it times out.

I personally use a combination of Armadillo and my own methods and this has guaranteed me payments for my hard work. This is also the reason why we have the Armadillo software as a prize for the contest on the Resources Site. This is a great tool that no serious software developer should be without. (you will also notice they are offering a 20% discount to PB users as a special promotion for the contest)


We all know that piracy is a fact of life but it's better to make it difficult for the pirates and get paid for your hard work than to just hand over your software to them and get nothing.


----------
Visit the PB Resources Site at http://www.reelmediaproductions.com/pb

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Rings.

well, for returning to the topic:
@Cor i think Armadillo is a very good solution for your Programm and for making Trial-versions.I have tested a lot of Protectors(PECyrpt from Collake,Softloc from BitArts,Privilege(Aladdin) )in Februar/march here at work:My Result is here .
Take a closer look and download an evaluation version of Armadillo from http://www.siliconrealms.com/download/Armd260c.exe .


Its a long way to the top if you wanna .....CodeGuru

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by PB.

> CNET and my pocket thinks that its popular : )
> No cracks available.

Again, what's your app's name?


PB - Registered PureBasic Coder

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Danilo.

> Did you have any shareware in market or just talking about something that you read?

I´m talking from the other side.

I _WAS_ in this scene -that you hate soo much- for some years.
Everything can be cracked, believe me...

I gave up with this last November because i got bored of it.
I decided to make something more useful and bought PB...
...a start of a new life.

This is a little wonder that i´m out now,
because most ppl there cant find the exit anymore.
They are all addicted to it..

Before you can talk about this scene you should
know how it is, what it is and how it works.
The best way to know a scene is to join it and
become a member of it. Step by Step.
This experience is very interesting...
...but better dont loose your time in
this scene. Maybe you get lost in it for years..

Now, whats the name of your app ??
(would be interesting to see it)

cya,
...Danilo

(registered PureBasic user)

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by PB.

> Perhaps it's "3D Calendar 4.0".

But the home page for that says it's written in Delphi, not PureBasic:

http://www.interserver.com.ar/host/icardoth/

Anyway, if it is Ricardo's app, then yes, cracks do exist for it,
including the latest version (v4.0).


PB - Registered PureBasic Coder

Restored from previous forum. Originally posted by Pupil.

Originally posted by PB

Yes i found that too so i removed my previous post.. to write a new one, but you managed to quote me anyway and it wasn't up that long, crap you're fast

Edit: damit stop editing your post PB