Powerbasic

netmaestro · Post by **netmaestro** » Sun May 20, 2007 5:52 pm

You might want to take another look at PureBasic now as your post doesn't seem to reflect any of the new features and datatypes implemented in version 4, which was a massive upgrade from 3.x. I personally think a string should be seen as a string of characters and not as binary data, but that's my personal preference and as you are aware, the commands for manipulating binary data are complete in both languages. Btw, PureBasic now supports unicode natively and seamlessly. Afaik it's not even on the todo list for PowerBasic.

Also, the support forum is far better for PureBasic. You can come on here and say almost anything you want about the product and it's all taken in stride. The list of people coming here who've been kicked off the PowerBasic forum for making comments unflattering to that language is getting pretty long.

newtheogott · Post by **newtheogott** » Sun May 20, 2007 5:57 pm

@Trond:
Powerbasic-Demo?
I don't know, maybe you will need to use the 30-Days Test they give each new customer. Also I think its hard to find out about a compiler in 30 days.
I can really not recommend anyone which compiler he should use. For myself I'd say that I decide on the type of project (and that has to do with datatypes).

@Paul.
Let me say, that I am sorry about what happened to you (and Wayne Diamond?). Anyway there is no need to use the Powerbasic Forum, if they don't like the open style you write.

Just register here:
http://www.jose.it-berater.org/smfforum/index.php

Jose's new Forum is the place where you are welcome anyway!

And if you look at the memberlist, many of the well-known people are there, you know them. And they know you.

@Maestro:
we posted at the same time

.
Yes I thought of taking another look. Anyway a few days ago, the QUAD datatype was still missing.

Besides I am sure you are right with the other things you said.
There is everything there for people who are used to do it that way.

As a BASIC-programmer coming originally from the ATARI 400 (ATARI-BASIC .-)), then ACORN RISC OS etc. I really used strings for all my data in all programms. Its just a way of thinking.

For me Strings in BASIC should be OLE-Strings, not C-Strings which are zero terminated. Thats the way BASIC was in earlier days, where I come from.

Post by **Fred** » Sun May 20, 2007 6:48 pm

newtheogott wrote:Anyway a few days ago, the QUAD datatype was still missing.

Better take a closer look. Your whole previous post (while true a few years ago) isn't accurate anymore, let's summary:

PureBasic now have character (8/16 bytes depending of the unicode settings), double, quad (that includes 64 bits file support for all libraries), fixed string (not zero terminated) and string (unlimited length). It also support 'pseudotype' to seemlessly convert a string into a OLE string (BSTR), utf8, ascii or UTF16 on the fly. Powerful Macros. Easy to use function pointers (propotypes). Build-in and very flexible Unicode support. And thus for all OS supported by PureBasic

.

So, yes, there is probaby probably some missing stuffs here and here, but not those you have mentionned. This can mislead newcomers here, that's why i'm replying.

newtheogott · Post by **newtheogott** » Sun May 20, 2007 7:01 pm

@Fred, thanks for your fast reply from first hand!

> fixed string (not zero terminated) and string (unlimited length).
Then the only thing from my post before are the dynamic OLE strings missing?
Maybe I should take a closer look, because the concepts of "pseudotypes" are not yet known to me. Also I am not yet into unicode programming, i was just talking from signed and unsigend integer variables in different sizes (8 to 64 bit).

This is something, I can only ask because I know you read this post:
Is the Thread safety really a problem, like in one of the previous posts said, or is that a missunderstanding too?

> If I have a concern about PureB then it's threading, parts of it don't
> look thread safe especially if you were using the database and thread
> modules together (or TCP module).

Because I use threads, and if you tell me, that its experimental actually I may not use it in Purebasic then.

Post by **Fred** » Sun May 20, 2007 7:28 pm

In PureBasic there is a special 'ThreadSafe' mode (since v4), which makes all the synchronization at the object level for you. There is still a remaining problem when using it in a dll in rare case, but it's the only issue I'm aware of (and we're on it). Thread in itself are not a problems, as it's very much OS related. There is a build-in mutex class to do highly level synchronization.

Dynamic OLE string can be done via pseudotypes.

Trond · Post by **Trond** » Sun May 20, 2007 7:29 pm

We have shortly had the chance to look on the Datatypes Powerbasic/Purebasic. Its not only QUAD missing, there are other Datatypes which need to be implemented. Whats needed is:

- 8 bit
- 16 bit
- 32 bit
- 64 bit

INTEGER.
If possible, each in a signed and a unsigned version. Powerbasic comes near to that. Whats missing in Powerbasic is just the unsinged 64 bit everything else is there.

It seems to me as PowerBasic lacks a signed byte as well as an unsigned quad.

newtheogott · Post by **newtheogott** » Sun May 20, 2007 7:52 pm

Confirmed

.
Signed Byte is missing as well as Unsigned QUAD.

At least its now clear what I would like to have in the "perfect compiler".

@Fred:
>The open way you talk about problems is something I like. Also I like the way you improved Purebasic from the time earlier until today. Thanks for the fast and open answer. Its always better to know before, where problems can be expected, then to find it out in a project, when its too late. And yes - after your statements I think it may be time to take again a closer look for a next project on Purebasic.

srod · Post by **srod** » Sun May 20, 2007 11:16 pm

Personally, I like Powerbasic; but I love Purebasic!

There was a time when I would turn to Powerbasic as much as Purebasic because of the problems you've already mentioned and a couple of others besides. However, in the intervening time, Purebasic has grown and grown and continues to mature into a powerful and very productive development platform and, to be honest, Powerbasic has simply not kept pace with these changes. Yes, Powerbasic has some nice features which I wouldn't mind seeing incorporated into Purebasic (e.g. threaded local variables) but even here it's a breeze to implement one's own. I have to say that PowerB simply does not compete in this respect, which is a shame.

As already stated, most, if not all, of the problems you have mentioned have been addressed and/or remedied and Purebasic is now one hell of a product. We have unicode, threadsafe, a large number of data types (okay unsigned integers are still mostly absent, but not a major deal) unlimited string sizes, great GUI libraries, a copious number of 'in-built' libraries, seemless integration with Windows etc. And of course, cross platform to boot!

And, as the maestro said, a fracking ('scuse the language

) excellent community to tap into!

Lovely jubbly!

netmaestro · Post by **netmaestro** » Sun May 20, 2007 11:36 pm

for all the integer types up to long you can simply drop them into the next biggest datatype and you have the unsigned value:

Code: Select all

Macro MakeUnsigned(varin, varout)
  CopyMemory(@varin, @varout, SizeOf(varin))
EndMacro

mybyte.b = 129
Debug mybyte

MakeUnsigned(mybyte, myword.w)
Debug myword

myword.w = -32767
Debug myword

MakeUnsigned(myword, mylong.l)
Debug mylong

mylong.l = #MAXLONG+2
Debug mylong

MakeUnsigned(mylong, myquad.q)
Debug myquad

pdwyer · Post by **pdwyer** » Mon May 21, 2007 3:15 am

personally since v4 I'm not seeing a use for PowerB at all except maybe to make minor changes on code I can't be bothered to port. I've been going through some of the code inc's I used a lot in PowerB and getting PureB versions running and I've been surprised that in quite a few cases the code is actually looking cleaner.

My SQLite stuff is pretty much done, my ICMP tracert stuff I didn't need to do as there's great working code in the tips area which was a nice surprise. I haven't looked into my SMTP and Proxy stuff yet but I'll probably find quite a bit of it.

I haven't tried much gadget or GUI stuff in pureB yet but it's looking like it will be better than PBForms - won't be hard to beat.

The more I use PureB the more I feel that in recent versions it's taken a step past PowerB overall and no longer just in game design features. I'm looking forward to see what if anything is going to happen with COM. I see a tutorial being put together too.

When the next PowerB version comes out I'll take a look at the docs and see whats new but I'm not expecting much. Even if they go with the rumoured .net support I can't see much benefit.

Also the off topic area here is not just a broken record about "Global Warming - fact or fiction" :roll:

Nice place this PureB, think I'll move in

netmaestro · Post by **netmaestro** » Mon May 21, 2007 3:26 am

Welcome and you seem a very positive addition to the group. You're right, we don't stop at global warming. We're insatiable for any news we can get regarding what David Hasselhoff thinks about global warming.

Dare · Post by **Dare** » Mon May 21, 2007 6:13 am

Wow, I can't believe I missed this thread!

Great discussion and all the good things have been said. I can only add user experience to the discussion. I stopped coding on mainframes and PCs in the MS-DOS and CP/M days (too long ago). When I decided to play around with programming again a few years back I tried (and probably bought a licence for) every basic language (and some others) that I could find.

PureBasic is the one I use. Faster development time, great community, tons of support (official and unofficial) and a product that just gets better and better in terms of stability, functionality and usability across several OSes.

In a few years time Fantaisie Software is going to be a major force on the scene - and if Fred tweaks his marketing policy just a tad, a very rich one. It is the 100 monkey club thing (or chain reaction if you prefer). We are reaching critical mass at the same time PureBasic is reaching industrial strength.

This is a momentum the rest of us can piggyback on and reap some rewards ourselves with supplementary products - everything from authoring books through ancilliary software to user-related websites.

Fangbeast · Post by **Fangbeast** » Mon May 21, 2007 6:16 am

I second what shorty above me said.

Dare · Post by **Dare** » Mon May 21, 2007 6:52 am

* smacks fangs around the ankles with a smelly trout *

I forgot to mention that you will find the users here friendly, respectful, respectable, professional, helpful, clued-up and mature.

* gets a ladder. Smacks fangs around the knees with a dead carp *

newtheogott · Post by **newtheogott** » Mon May 21, 2007 7:58 am

>I forgot to mention that you will find the users here friendly, respectful, respectable,

I can second that. But more then the technical details which i have to try first, I like the way Fred sells his product in fair and customer friendly way.
You buy a membership to a community (somehow) instead of only a software licence. That was originally the reason, why I decided to get a Purebasic customer at a time, when the Purebasic Editor did not even have un UNDO fuction.
To be complete here: Today the Editors for Purebasic are state-of-the art and have all thinkable features.

About the technical things:
1. With the datatypes - i am not yet good enough about in Purebasic to say if thats all easy stuff. I remember a discussion with Daniel (from the Forum here), where he wanted to make a connection to a DLL, and he had some trouble. I think because of missing datatypes. Maybe he can write something about it if the problems are still there.
Here is a link for direct comparison of the available datatypes:
http://www.powerbasic.com/support/help/pbwin/index.htm
http://www.purebasic.com/documentation/ ... ables.html

Anyway, the Purebasic-Online Help looks outdated, are they?
I looked in the Pure-Wiki as well, nothing from QUADS.
I think the Online Doku is not yet up-to date for V.4.
Maybe someone can post a better link showing the actual possibilities.

2. I will have to find out what "pseudotypes" are

to see if i can really use BSTR in the code for binary data as easy as it was in my traditional BASIC languages and those of you who are in the age of having a ATARI or C 64 some 10 years before know what I am talking about).

Also Fred may remember that some of this things are not not new, I have mailed him about this already at the 7.10.2001 (Subject:"chrismas wishlist"). And reading the mail from that time, I see that most wishes got fullfilled

.

The communication with Fred was always cool that time. Example out of this mail?

> And if you do all things that I tell you, your PB will sell much
> better then now AND you will be able to buy yourself also one

.

Hehe, you're a dreamer

(it was 2001)